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Author Topic: The Rise of El Toro...  (Read 47962 times)
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« on: March 26, 2007, 03:25:31 PM »

Picked this thing up for $20 down the road with a full 2 gallon tank of gas, so I basically paid $15 for a running mower & drove it home. It ate the belt for the deck and the guy didn't have the number for it so he just went out and baught a new mower... I'm currently in the disassembly process as you can tell...

I couldn't find any gofaster parts for it going to the local lawnmower places and such, so for now it's at a blazing 5mph! I turned up the governer a bit so I get a little bit more ground speed and power to climb hills and *poopie*. It's slow as death, it drives me crazy! lol

I'm actually thinking of putting my honda 110cc ATC engine on it. Since the rear axle is gear driven, I can mount the engine right where the transmission/battery is, and just stick the battery where the engine currently is. The only problem after that would be adding brakes and then figuring out how on earth I would start the thing (the ATC 110 engine is a kickstart engine). It's an idea floating around in my head for now, we'll see what happens though.

As of right now I've added some lights to make my night time trail rides a bit more managable. Took one of the rally lights off my car and mounted it right on the front, and mounted the foglights underneath the front "fenders" with some custom brackets. All controlled by a simple on/off switch on the RH side of the mower. (Much easier to flip the switch than have it on the ignition, even though the ignition has a position for RUN & LIGHTS, I'd rather have a a toggle switch.) The rear tail light is a 3rd brake light out of a 1st generation Lumina (from my car's spare parts pile).

I rewired the ignition switch becuase it was all sorts of messed up. With the ignition switch in the on position, as soon as you sat on the seat the lawnmower would start up. You would then have to put it in the off position to keep it running and shut off the starter. To turn it off you would have to put the ignition into the momentary start position. I have no clue what all that was about, but nothing that a bit of rewiring didn't fix. I also tightened up every screw, nut & bolt; disassembled the differential, cleaned & regreased it; and greased every movable part on the thing.

I'm going to get some sheetmetal and enclose the engine compartment and already have a rack for the back (over the engine). I will have side vents and some duct work for cooling - we don't want that little 8HP from 1970 overheating! lol

I desperately need a new seat, the one on there is absolute junk if you can't tell. That and I need some good tires. I'm going to get a nice set of ATV tires for it, a little bigger than the stock size.

Anyways, on to the pics!

Added a rack on the back, & taped up the seat... The tape on the seat was one of the best mods so far! lol It really needs to be replaced. I painted the rack black, and while I was a it I painted the tape and exposed foam on the seat so it dosn't look  as horrible as it currently does lol

There is that damn sprocket that I cannot get off! It unbolts jsut fine, but the tire, spacer and bearing are all rusted to the axle so I can't take it off!  grumpy

And look at that wierd differential! It's on it's way out unfortuinately. Upon first disassembly I noticed alot of the teeth were chipped off and the grease was pretty much nonexistant. There was also ALOT of play in it too. I cleaned it up real good, packed it full of new grease & hoped for the best. So far it's holding up, but it's in need of replacement. Live axle FTW!

The pulley setup (no it's not stock :-D)

This is what I've been up too lately :twisted:

For right now the 12.5 is going to stay on the Toro. I'm messing with that Twin II 18 I/C, going to see if I can turn it into a good running engine. When/if it does run, it'll be going on the Wizard, and then the black Twin II will go on the Toro  :twisted:

I cant get your pic.s

They're all clickable thumbnails, they should work with no problem.

Cool! I want a newer IC 12.5 briggs.

...let me take that carb and intake from that 12.5 off your hands!  I wish that 8 hp had a cast iron sleeve, I could find a home for that too...

Yeah, that 8HP is now sitting in a milk crate in the corner of the garage. Not too sure what I'm going to do with it yet.

I think your pulley is pooched  lol

Yeah, it's forever going to stay on that censored engine. I was planning on still using the Toro for mowing since the speed hasn't really been upgraded, but after not being able to get that pulley off, I just went with a 3" pulley on the engine shaft and called it a non-mowing day lol

i'd take that 8HP off your hands! pully and everything. it'd be a perfect engine for my Stallion since i only have a 5 HP on it right now...and i bet me and my dad would be able to get that pulley off....

If your really interested I'd have no problem selling it to you. Ran good when pulled, first thing I did when I got the engine was change the oil and throughly wash and re-oil the filter. It's in good condition, but 12.5 I/C > 8HP any day lol

Just going to sit around the house as a spare

heh, yea, anyone would take a 12.5 over an 8, but anyways.....i aint got much money...but i'd probibly borrow some from my parents...(one of the downsides of being 15 lol ) so...whatcha want for it? and if you can, can you get me a shipping estimate for 14727? if so thanks.

wizard does (well use to) 50 and the toro about 25

Are you sill plannin to put that 18 twinn on there? lol

Nope, I got a 19 twin now to stick on there >

holy ......., 19 hp on a rear engine toro, thats like never herd of, just think at one time you were driving the toro around with a little 8 hp lol, 19 hp on there would be sick!!!!

Yeah I know that 8HP was useless! It had excellent 50/50 weight distrobution with that little 5lb engone on the rear, and that all went to hell with the 12.5! Now the 19 weighs considerably more than the 12.5 so it'll be interesting to drive. I see it causing problems going up hills though, lifting up the front end, which could be VERY bad! I'm going to stick it on there and test it on a hill before I perminantly hook up all the linkage and everything else.

Lift would not be good. you could always "sand rail" the hill and just jump it.

yeah that probably wouldn't go so well because a sad rail goes about 80 and his toro goes like 10 i believe he pute in a post so jumping large hill wouldn't be the best idea but a good thing to do is to move ur self forward on the mower and maybe pute a winch on the front add so much needed extras weight.
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« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2007, 03:28:55 PM »

It's changed allot since last seen on here. Lots and lots of time, welding juice & money has gone into this thing. The Wizard is broke (yet again) so I've just been working on the Toro lately.

It's changed a bit, definitely for the better!

Welded up the rear diff so it's a solid axle, re-did the steering (welded up a direct steer system - think go-kart), got some good headlights, fabbed up an excellent exhaust, welded on some bike handlebars (The grip shift turned hand throttle is absolutely AWESOME! I can't begin to explain how good of a mod it was!), painted it all flat-black, and finally welded up the front axle so it no longer articulates (I have become the master or riding on two wheels).

I got some new tires for the rear since traction was becoming an issue... Went and tested them in the mud down the road....

It sat in the garage overnight like that, most of the mud dried by the time I came home from work...

As soon as my server is back online I have a bunch of progress pics to post thumbsup

That pic is actually the background on my computer at work. This is the only IT specialist known to man that has a lawnmower that can hang with ATVs lol

dude that is effing SWEET!!


looks like the "mud down the road" was a 4 foot pit of mud!

Thanks for the comments. Yeah, the mud was pretty thick! Lots of fun to play in! I get to try and wash it all off tomorrow. Just need to get some better tires for the front... It likes to push a little! smile

if those rims are 4'' u can get matching sno hogs ;D pretty sweet unfortunately they dont make any sno hogs for 5'' rims

Yeah, they're 5" sad


thats a really sweet toro, how fast is she?

Right now it's kinda slow - only about 20mph. I need to get a larger sprocket on the transmission side to make it a bit faster. But how it is now, it's way too fast for some of the trails I ride on. Usually I'm in 3rd gear going down most of the trails; but on the road it's wide open in 5th - and it seems really slow. It's more for getting places that it shouldnt be getting then speed though smile

It reminds me of my old rear engine mower with locked diff, snow hogs, handle bar's with hand throttle with added head light.

holy censored it looks like u went thru alot of mud  woo how did u get it so mudy


Yeah, I went and played in the mud a bit smile

Jeff, that mower in that pic you posted, is that a Bolens? cuz that looks kinda like my dads old Bolens Rear engine...

And if that is a bolens, then thumbnail the picture so i can see it better!

I'm not Jeff, but in one of his builds i remember him saying that it was a deere  wink
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« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2007, 06:50:45 AM »

Got some new tires for the rear and new rims all the way around.
Also added a custom aux gas tank holder and a 2" lift! woo

(all clickable thumbnails)

Mounted the tires on the rims
and was messing with axle to
test fir it. The axle was a 3/4"
metal rod with the ends
threaded (it was a freebie!)

This is how I got the sprocket off the rear axle.
With a sawzall.

Used the casing from the old
differential to mount the sprocket.

All set to be mounted.

All that was left of the old axle

All done, testing the aux tank

How it looks now since the upgrade

Measuring for the aux tank

Had to trim the bumper a
bit to clear the new tires!

My ghetto setup to heat up
the 1/4" steel for bending.

All bent up and welded on!

Fits like George's spandex superman suit!

I gained a little helper as soon
as I started the engine. Someone
 wanted to go for a ride smile

It has SUCH a better stance!
It's gained a bunch of ground
clearance and is a blast to drive,
even more than before!

Looks like that would be great in the SNOW!

I have to admit looks good Chris. Now about that spandex remark. .....

Now if you get somewhere and run out of gas all you have to do is fill her up and keep right on going.. lol

dude that is freaking sweet next project WOODS MOWER!!

oo seen this in another topic, y not build a mount like u done for the gascan for a car battery?? 

thats awesome, how fast does it go now anyway?

I do hope you took the battery out of there, before you welded that gas can bracket?!!  omg

Sorry George, I couldn't resist! lol
I'm actually considering it! I bought two cans, one for each side. I was eyeballing it yesterday after putting the first one on, and was like "hmmm, I can put a nice big car battery on the other side"
I put a towel over it... Not the greatist thing to do, but it was at least protection from the sparks. I know I should have removed them both but it was 30* out and I jsut wanted to get it done at that point oops

wicked cool mower.  3gears

I put a towel over it... Not the greatist thing to do, but it was at least protection from the sparks. I know I should have removed them both but it was 30* out and I jsut wanted to get it done at that point oops

 woo You have a death wish or what dude??

Local moron decided to try and jump start his car with the DC cycle on his welder one day, blew the fender and grill off of his car! Not to mention his being covered with battery acid from the top of his head to about waist level, where he was leaned over the fender hooking up the cable.

Now granted the car wasn't much to look, and he really wasn't much to look at, (even before the battery acid facial), in fact the U-G-L-Y streak runs WAAAAAAAY deep in that family. But considering the force required to blow a car fender and grill off of a vehicle, and the fact that your head was mere inches away from that battery, without a car fender to protect it. That just really ain't very cool!

Holy hell, who tries to do that!??!!??!? That guy should NOT have owned a welder if he was that dumb.

The reason I wasn't too worried about the battery is because they only release gases when charging, and the mower sat for about 4 hours prior to me welding the tank holder on there. Most of the welding sparks weren't near the battery  because of the location of the welds.

I know I probably still should have just removed both batteries anyway for extra safety reasons...


You don't by chance have any hillbilly looking relatives driving 3 fendered cars around ND do you?


But that happened when he used the starter fluid to seat the tire bead on his rim...rofl

Ether FTW! lol
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« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2007, 07:18:58 AM »

all i can say is that mower is SWEET!! all you need now is a new seat! i like your tape up work on the seat lol. man i need tose tires for my ford because i aways get stuck in my back feild in a foot of mud and my "Turf protector" tires just dont cut it for mud! Also theres a toro down the road from my house tha is the same one as yours just sitting around collecting rust, i'm waiting to see it out by the road for garbage one day.

y wait for that day to come go ask the durn guy for it 9times outta 10 they just wanna get rid of it

yeaa... but i'm too shy to go up to peoples houses and knock on their door arrgh...oh well

lmao so ud rather sneak away with it on garbage day

YES! thats how i get most of my mower parts and engines!

DUDE go ask! That's kinda how I got mine... It was for sale on the side of the road for $40. Went and talked to the guy and drive it home for $20.

Best $20 I've ever spent!

censored skippy man thats must have been the best 20$$ u spent lol look at whats its become hell offer the guy 5-10 bucks for it if u dont i will lol

a buddy of mine just got the same toro a week ago and i just got back from helping him work on it like 10 minutes ago, his has a 8 hp tecumseh that threw a rod so were just gonna throw in a spare 11 hp briggs that he has on the shelf., im kinda jealous of his peerless 700 >:(

They respond VERY well to engine swaps!

that toro looks SWEET!

How many miles do you think you have accomplished on it in one day?

You mean driving it around?


Usually when I take it out I'll burn through a tank of gas, and be gone for 3-4 hours. So I'd say usually 20 miles at the very least

i think that thing is sweet i am gonna build my own bush mower soon but i need to finish my other stuff first that was there i can find me a new mower to make a bush mower out of. but that this is sweet how fast does it go??

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« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2007, 07:21:23 AM »

You have to be like the 10th person to ask that on this forum! lol

It only goes 20mph as of now. That's more than enough for most of the trails I'm on (depending on where I am usually I'm in 1st or 3rd gear), but on the road in 5th gear wide open it's soooooooo sloooooow!!!!

I ordered the 18 tooth sprocket for the output shaft on my 700. With 10 extra teeth I think that'll speed things up considerably >

Well let's see... if it takes him 3-4 hours to go 20 miles....

That's about 5 to 6.6 MPH....badgrin

Yeah, depending on where I am; I'm usually traveling pretty darn slow

thats still fast enough my little mudder i had whent like 5 mph in 5th gear do u find the rear engine tippy at all?

Nope, it's actually alot more nimble and feels safer than being on my wizard. Since putting the larger tires on it and the 2" lift it dosn't rase the front tires much anymore, even when I try to (no more wheelies for me).

thats sweet things allmost a four wheeler now u gotta devise a plan to make a 4x4 lawn mower :P but yeah i got an old rear engine ford but its posesed so i dont wanna work on it any more :P it actualy made a good motor run bad woo

Funny you say that about the 4x4 becuase I've actually been looking into doing that to the wizard.

But look what I started doing today... (as always clickable thumbnails)

This + toro = fun!

I still need to get around to putting that Twin 18 I/C back together....

about the 4x4 mower, ive seen pulling tractors made into 4x4, so it is a feasible plan

i like that bit 19 you have there, but can you tell me what the difference between the twins that back red shrouds and the plain black ones? and whats better about th Diamond Plus engine you have there ove the I/C and the regular engines?



The plain black shrouds (like my wizard) are just regular ho-hum aluminum engines. The ones with the red shrouds (I/C [Industrial/Commercial for you folks that don't know what it stands for]) have cast iron sleeves and last longer. Truthfully I'm not sure the difference between the Diamond Plus and the I/C, if there is any at all. I'm going to assume that it's the newer version of the I/C engine. It has the cast iron sleeves, but it also has the pressurized oil system (hence the filter); whereas the other two don't. Also keep in mind this 19 is much newer than the other two twins that I have.

I'm sure someone allot more knowledgeable like George or Randy could elaborate on it.

I can already emagine the possibility's with a 19 hp twinn on a toro, I need to do this to my little 5 hp huffy lol

Pulled the 12.5

I powerwashed off my Wal-Mart paintjob :(

A milk crate with a hole in the center is an excellent temporary engine stand thumbup

Removing the governor!

lookin good!! that 19twin looks really nice inside!! keep the pictures comin.


I need to figure out some sort of setup for a gas tank and linkage for the throttle but it'll be all good to go soon hopefully!

And yeah, that engine was very clean inside - very nice!

when you get a picture of the toro with the engine sitting on it i might be able to t hink of tight is the fit?


I have some pics of when I was messing around and stuck the Twin 18 form the Wizard on it in this thread:,1318.0.html

I was thinking of getting some sheet metal and welding something ghetto up, or just using a small tank of some sorts
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« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2007, 07:25:26 AM »

ever seen those little techumsi push mowers that have the tank mounted on to the shroud? theres like 2 cutouts in the shroud that 2 tabs on the tank slide into? what about one of those on the side of the shroud just above the head? it would look cool too!


I unfortuinately don't know what your taling about... You wouldn't have any pictures would you?

lol while i was writing that i figured you wouldnt understand, its hard to follow, so i started lookin for pictures, maybe this will help...

its still a little confusing but maybe it helps you get the idea, if it doesnt just tell me and ill  go out in the garage tomorrow and do kind of a "mock up" of what i mean


I see what your getting at, the dual tanks would look kinda cool! I was going to stuff one tank right between the engine/seat. Maybe I could do both, have like 5 gallons between three tanks and then the aux tanks on the side and I'd be set to drive to canada and back! lol

Maybe you could take a page out of the historybooks and follow the strategies of one Erwin Rommel,a.k.a. the Desert Fox.He used to hide caches of supplies in stategic places.For example;my bud and I were out on the trails awhile ago,and after a hard ride we stopped for a break.I said'wouldn't it be nice if we had a green bottle beverage to imbibe?"You should have seen his face when I walked over and miracoulsy extracted not only fuel AND libations,but clean shirts to wear on the ride back!It pays to hide supplies out where you might need them,just make sure you are close enough to retrieve them!

LOL that's pretty cool!

I have to say that I miss my cargo rack that I had way back in the days of the 8HP

im glad the idea made since to you chris, i thought the duel tanks would look really cool!!


ummm,what is that lol2 lol2 hmmm

or u could just tap into the gas can, remember u now have a fuel pump so u can have the tank mounted btw your feet even 

ahh see i didnt know that, thats why i suggested the dual tanks by the heads, i was gunna suggest mounting an electric pump but with all the trouble he said he had not havin enough power to run his lights i figured it was can mouth your tanks anywhere you see fit chris.


2.5 gallon custon "wedge" shaped tank mounted up front by steering tunnel....

Your gonna need to haul more gas and can use the weight up front with that bigger motor...

:worried: 1 spark and there'll be a hole the size of Rhode Island out there in Vermont!

lol2 This thing is going to be so incredibly dangerous! lol

It's great! woo

woo Update pics!!!!!!!!! woot

Plugged the hole where the governor use to be

Started welding up the 2nd gas can holder

Trailer hitch makes an excellent workbench for grinding!

My ghetto setup to heat the metal for bending

Engine all back together, cleaned and governorless

Making myself some new ultra heavy duty bumpers badgrin

Don't know if I showed this before,
but the origional bumper required lots
of trimming to clear the larger tires.

My grinding bench again
(to round off the edges of the bumper pieces)

Sweet! Looks awesome, how much were those snow hogs? I might get some for my front tires.
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« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2007, 08:47:16 AM »

Too much! lol

Rears were $25/ea
Fronts were $20/ea

Rocky,   Rhode Island?? whistling

lol3 rofl

hey chris, hows the progress goin? figure out what your gunna do with the tank yet?


Yeah, i would have never thought in my hole entire life i would get jealous of a rear engine toro, that thing is just insanly amazing. oooooohhhh and for the gas tank, on my old crapsman i put the gas tank under neeth the seat becouse my motor had a fuel pump on the side, it worked great untill Pastfast125 (dan) broke be frame in half doing a wheelie mad

Ok, what did I miss?!?!?!

I really like the idea of those "saddlebag" style tanks! You really got the gears going in my head with those!!! I'm thinking of doing a tri-tank setup. I can fit a 4x10x10 tank in front of the engine under the seat, and then have the two engine mounted tanks dump into that one and have the pump suck it from there.

Thanks dude, I appreciate that!

AHHHHAHAHHAHAHA!!!! I totally pictured that in my head too lol

im glad the whole "saddle bag" tank idea sounded good to you! i really liked it when i thought it up lol


I really do like that idea, it kicks butt and would double as fenders kinda! lol

Well anyways, here are some more update pics of last night's work!

Got my new ultra heavy duty bumper all welded on!

You can see my ultra cool steering setup and
 how the bumper is secured to the frame

Another angle of it

How it looks all finished up

Finally got the engine mounted! I used the pan from
 the Twin I/C that I have disassembled as my template for drilling holes.

My very cool throttle return setup

This is how much room is between the seat and the engine.
I want to put a gas tank there to fill the hole

I unfortunately had to steal the mufflers off the wizard.
I liked the stock muffler, but it wouldn't clear the bumper,
that and it wouldn't allow me to tow a trailer due to clearance.

My very expensive pipe cutting bench

The poor Wizard getting cannibalized for parts

Here's an Idea I started to play with last night! I origionally
was going to weld up a roll bar for the wizard and mount these
on it, but when I was looking at the Toro and it's enormously huge
overkill bumper I noticed the lights out of the corner of my eye
and ran with the idea. I'm all for having about 30 seconds of
battery power as soon as I turn them on lol

dude!! the toros lookin sweet chris!! poor wizard tho  :( ohwell....that space between the engine and the seat would look killer filled in, you could make i lok almost stock!! make sure you make the bottom of the tank nice and thick tho, wouldnt want that chain to snap and bust a hole right in the bottom, you could put a gaurd over the chain too......i idea with the lights, 2 on the bumper and one up high looks awesome!! just wonder if the chargeing system would support them?
how light is the front of the toro now with that nice big 19 on there? i know that bumber added a fair bit of weight.


That toro reminds me of a quad lol, When do you think you will have it running?

I just had a idea, Im not saying that the snow hogs are bad, but if you had roto tiller aggiculture tires on the rear, you could like enter your toro in a truck mud bogging compotition.  lol

Got it running today! Took it for a spin and oh man that thing is a ball! The belt is slipping like a mofo since the engine is now forward and to the right... So instead of the belt using 75% of the pulley, it's now only using like 20%. I'd get a larger pulley but I've gone through so many belts trying different combinations that I really don't want to do that again (I literally have 20+ belts hanging up in the garage).

It does have a chain guard, I just removed it when I started working on it because I was messing with it so much and the guard just kept getting in the way. I might put it back on when I get the larger drive sprocket on the transmission.

The charging system doesn't support the lights that are currently on there, I get about 20 minutes of lighting until the battery is flat dead. At that point if the engine stalls I have bigger issues on my hand! That's why I've been trying to figure something out for the lights. I ran an AUX batter for a while, but still after 20 minutes I was done, and then I needed to come home to charge the battery, but I wouldn't loose my ability to start the engine though (which is a plus!!!). I was pondering today the thought of not having the gas tank under the seat, but maybe an alternator mounted upside down being powered by a belt on the crankshaft (think like how the mower decks are powered).

The front bumper and all the guards added at least 40lbs to the front, I'd say about 35 for the rear bumper. The weight transfer isn't as bad as I expected it to be, because when I drilled the mounting holes for the twin I moved the engine forward 2" and to the right 1" and it seems to work pretty good. The front is really easy to lift up in the air, but the rear isn't too hard to lift either. I'd like to get 4 bathroom scales and see what my front/rear weight ratio looks like.

As for the ag tires, those are going on the Wizard if I ever get it done smile
Anyone know the technical name of these tanks?

eBay has nothing like them unfortunately; nor do they have any gas tanks that will fit into my 10x10x4 space...

its a 2 quart tecumseh fuel tank. Part number is 34826B cap number is 37845

Posted on: March 29, 2007, 10:43:34 AM
woot You rock dude!


What part(s) did you take out in the "removing the governor" picks? Is the governor all the gears and such?? is it the one gear? I've never seen inside this motor before, ya kinda lost me! LOL


I'll post more detailed pics for you. My camera is junk when it comes to taking close-ups (and it only gets worse in macro mode), which is unfortunate because I was planning on a "how to remove the governor from an opposed twin" writeup thread. I still have to remove the governor in my other two opposed twins so I might do the writeup with one of them and someone else's digiecam.

Thanks!!!! Chris!

so this mower is gonna have 4 gas tanks?

No problem creech!

And it's technically going to have 5 tanks. I'm going to have to fabricate (so it seems) a 10"x10"x4" main tank that will sit in front of the engine and under the seat. It'll then have the two "saddlebag" type tanks that will dump into the main tank. The fuel pump will guzzle the gas from the main tank... Not sure if I'm going to have it suck the gas from the bottom side of the tank, or on the top through a straw (so to speak).

The other two tanks will be the two that I made mounts for on the side of the mower.

Any tank that's 10" tall by 10" long by 4" wide will fit.

  woo "I just stopped at the Gas Station and it cost me $84 to fill up my lawn mower!"
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« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2007, 09:02:14 AM »

i gotta admit man im startin to build my own woods mower this thing is just too cool i used to have one but i blew the motor in it lmao kinda funny when it happened tho fired it up while i was in reall thick heavy mud and i knew it would have stalled had i let the clutch out at low speed so i revved it up reall high and dropped the clutch and off went the starter POW!! woo only connected by the cable at that point rod thru the side of the block! cause of blow up ??? improper oiling and overrev  oops ill see if i can get some pics of what i got so far lol theres not much there now but the trans and rear wheels and front wheels but itll be reall sweet cause its gettin a custom frame and everythin it will have a mower hood running boards and fenders tho  but its gunna be SAWEET!!

El Toro Asesino - Loosely translated... "The Killer Bull!"

i like that^^fits perfect...even just El Toro, which is The Bull i do believe....and chris, i mugh have a few tanks around back of the garage is danny can find ya another...


Danny: Yes, it's the $1 cans of wal-mart flat black. With the type of off-roading I do, the paint is constantly getting messed up. I just touch it up with another $1 can of flat black lol It's meant to look tough (hence the flat black) and be cheap (hence the wal-mart paint). That whole paint job only cost me $2 lol

The Killer Bull woot I like the idea >

Sounds good Phil!

More update pics!!!!!

Welded up the rear bumper

My super awesome exhaust fan stand
that I made in like 5 minutes for $0! lol

Got the bumper supports tacked into place.

Believing in overkill, I welded the inside also.

Bumper supports all welded up into place!
Also got more supports welded onto the bumper itself.

A better shot of the bumper with welded supports

Welding the bumper on to the supports

Prepping for skidplate steering protection

Got the metal all nice and bent

Tacked on

Fully welded into place

Got the skidplate bar welded on.
You can see how it's designed to
protect the steering from getting damaged

Got the throttle cable set up.
Had to use two cables, joined them using
sheer injenewity! Used two chain links and
welded them to the frame, they work GREAT!

I was anxious, it was time to fire it up!

Finished, for now...

I don't remember if I ever posted pics
of my awesomely cool chain tensioner I fabbed up

I had to rig up a ghetto gas tank to take it
for a cruise around the block a few times lol

lookin good chris, what about that rear bumper thought? man the things big, gunna be like rammin cars and stuff? lol....hows that nice 19 feel on it? lots of power i assume?


Thanks guys! I can't wait to get it completely finished, it's so close!!!! From here I need to just get and setup the fuel tanks, (maybe) add the massive amount of Baja lights, find some way to mount my tail light again, and then I'm done with it.... And on to the Wizard build!!!

The bumpers are sheer overkill, but I really want to keep that sexy twin protected! When I go through the woods (I mean I go STRAIGHT through the woods, no trails - nothing!) and am ramming trees, logs, and other junk like that bigger is better! I really just don't want to be backing up, only half paying attention and catch a large rock in the block, or rip off a muffler. I'm all for extreme amounts of overkill... Hence a 19HP twin on a 15lb rear engine mower! badgrin

The 19 does have all sorts of power, and my god it sounds SO GOOD!!!! The problem is that since I moved the engine forward and to the right of the original mounting location (it was offset, now in the center) the belt doesn't have much to grab on to. I'm going to put another idler on there, change it around a bit so I can still use the same pulleys and one of the many spare belts I have in the garage. The belt slips in 3rd 4th and 5th gear, but not in 1st or 2nd. 1st gear spun the tires and left marks on the floor int the garage (accidentally I swear :oops), 2nd gear shot small rooster tails in the dirt. I can;t wait untill the weekend when I can finish more work on it and really take it for a cruise!

Well, maybe in the back yard because I'd run out of gas 500' from home with that ghetto setup I have on there now! lol

sounds like all is goin well chris, would be awesome if you could get a short video clip for some of us...if possible...i do know some of the fellas on here are still using dial up so short and sweet would be nice for them too, or even a long video just cut into peices...


I do have a few clips of it running, but the sound on my digital camera is crap and all it does is clip really really bad.

I know that its experiencing belt slipping problems, but did you feel the front end lifting up on you at all?

Not yet, I'll definitely be able to tell when I get the belt issues under control though. I did go up a very steep hill that we have in the back yard and it didn't feel scary like it was going to tip backwards (which was what I was most worried about).

Chris, Thank you for all of the pictures. I may have a better solution for your gas tank. On a Dixon ZTR mower the tank is thin and stands straight up. It sets behind the seat right where you want yours. It just so happends that I know where just such a tank and holder is! It is out at my dad's place. We have been robbing parts off of it for his buggy. (the one I posted a pick in my thread) Anyway we should finish up the buggy this Saturday and I will ask if he needs it. If he says that I can get rid of it I will send it to you. I also have a rear set of rims and an axle sprocket that came off of a Toro. I bought it to get the peerless tranny out of it. You are welcome to them if you want. I am going to try and get my rear rims powder coated in the next few weeks (chrome w/ 500percent gloss). If you want I could do these Toro rims at the same time and send them to ya. Kinda "censored your ride" type thing. If you don't like the chrome idea I have mirror red, mirror black, and a satin flat black. It is not hard to change colors. The work involved in powder coating is in the prepration. I am going to have to "prepair" mine and I don't mind hooking up the Toro rims for ya. Keep up the good work and don't get hurt, at least you get to ride yours. All I can do is set on mine and dream.

Scott #396


your mower is just awsome sick man.................

Very very cool, I love how  most every one is building “race” mower and you are building an off road mower…. just way to cool.....

I Freakin' love you man... Just don't take that the wrong way. wink

I'll shoot ya a PM when I get home (currently at work and its a madhouse right now willynilly)

And thank you Creech!
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« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2007, 09:07:58 AM »

      ......................yet you still have time for 

hehehehehehhehhehehe :P

I'm going insane, I needed a break from the madness.

And I ALWAYS have time for Heymow twothumbsup

OOO wait, i know what i was going to ask you Chris...

where did you get the pulley that you are running on your twin??

I need it!!!! LOL, i could save some money by not buying an entire hub set up like George is working on.

The engine pulley?


Hey chris, that's got to be the coolest rear engine ATV mower I've seen!

I got it from the local racing lawnmower guy. Only costs me $8 IIRC, want me to get you one?

Thanks Jeff, I put allot of work into this thing!

i'm thinking so.....


how big it (OD)
i am guessing at this point that my crank is the same size as yours....  here is the motor i would need it for, what do you think? the same?

sorry about the air tin being off of it...
it's an 18hp cast iron B&S

Yeah, all opposed twins are basically the same with little differences between them all

lol i dont wanna critisize or anything...but if theyre all the same then how can there be differences? lmao! sry chris, just pickin on ya :P


Ohhh you knew what I meant! lol

ahhhh yes i did, but i could resist....whats the word on the toro? anything new goin on? or you just still waitin on tanks?


Well since I work so darn much, I only get to play with the Toro on the weekends :(

Ain't that a censored...? 

Work sucks up so much good building/driving time...

Since I'm not gonna give up eating, sleeping, family time or time on Mowbetter...

We may just have to quit our  jobs to get anything done...
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« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2007, 09:10:12 AM »

My poor F/X is just sitting out there in that cold garage all alone....

I can hear it calling...

I wish my job was part time sometimes :(

i dont even have a job! i wish i did though, because i have absolutely NO money as of now. I spent my last 4 dollars on a cheeseburger....i'm bad at spending my money wisely...
Also, i only get to WORK and RIDE or even SEE my mowers for that matter every other weekend, because all the mowers are at my dads house and i only go there every other weekend.I would bring my mowers to my moms house out here in Cuba, but then all my tools and a junkyard full of parts are 2 hours away at my dads.

A wise man once stated, "There are 3 ways in life to get rich...

1.) Be born into money!
2.) Marry a woman with lots of money!
3) Work your censored off all your life.

And, the first two are a damned site easier than the last!"

Start suckin up to the rich gals!

Well... It's also been stated that...

"Money ain't everything in life, but it's way the hell ahead of whatever's in second place!"

We are simply discussing his need for funding to allow more time to work on mowers and enjoy his pursuits of bouncing over the hills of Vermont on his off road Mowchine. If he married an attorney he would have less need to work all of those hours, and more time to spend on El Toro! lmfao


Now I just need to go find myself a really pretty lawyer that likes modded lawnmowers! lol

That's awesome. Makes me wanna set one up to play with!! woo

Ahhhhh I'm going crazy!!! There is like 2" of snow on the ground AND I WANNA GO PLAY IN IT WITH THE TORO!!!!!!!!!!! willynillywillynillywillynillywillynillywillynillywillynilly

my "deal with the shop teacher" has been delayed because my dad said i have to get the MTD running perfectly before i even think of bringing it to school, but i still havent got the solenoids in the mail, so i have to jump start the mower every time, and my dad considers that not "running perfectly" so hopefully next weekend the solenoids from Mowmanscott would be there and then the mower could "run perfectly" and i could bring it to school...

Ahhhhh... the Dad Factor! He's got a point, if it runs perfectly, it's not a burden to move around in the shop, whereas if it doesn't run then every time it has to be moved it's up to someone to lift, carry, or push it around. Okay!! Just wondering if you were still pursuing that offer.

Yeah, pushing a non-running mower isn't fun. I hate the fact that I have to push around both the Wizard and now the Toro. :(

i may have missed something, but why is the toro not running?

oh yea, i forgot that you didnt have gas tanks....i see how you used that little bottle for a temporary gas tank but it ran out of gas to fast...but why dont you just use that big gas jug that you built that bracket for, as a gas tank for now??
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« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2007, 09:12:13 AM »

This thread makes me wanna buy a toro  lol, like serisly just look at that beast.

The little jug has some ventilation issues - so it'll only run the engine for a few minutes before it decides to tell the fuel pump to go take a hike because it's not getting any more gas.

The reason I haven't used one of the aux tanks as a real fuel tank is because I would need a much longer hose then I have on there, and I wouldn't want the fuel splashing around everywhere all over me. I learned the hard way with the Wizard that if you can't do it right - then don't do it at all. As impatient as I am wanting to go cruise around in the snow that we just got - I know that if I rig something up it can cause some serious safety issues for me.

That would be bad...

Yeah, I would see a bright future for myself...

Bright as in a fireball on wheels

is that toro the kind with the ceter pivot, like right under your feet? i have a snapper thats like that. I always thought it would be good for crawling around in the woods! i think im going to build my MTD i just got into a 'utility' type of mower. itll pull my racer to the track, and push it home when it dies on test runs and stuff like that.

i REALLY like your big ol bumper! CooL!

Center pivot? What is this center pivot that you speak of? It sounds like it could be interesting!

ok, the snapper i got looks like your toro, but right under your butt, where the seat mounts on, its just like a 2x2 tubing going to the front. If it wasnt for the deck there, you would be able to flintstone it without having to put your legs off the side. Then right under  your butt where the 2x2 tubing attaches to the rear subframe with engine/tranny it has a pivot, like their version of a pivoting front axle, only seems way more stable!
ill see if i can find a pic.

I think I know what your talking about

here ya go...
thisones got a round bar, and mines got square, but same thing. Once you remove that big ol deck, you got nothing but the round pipe connecting the rear with the front!

the foot rests are part of the front end. think how LIGHT that sucker would be!

Yeah my uncle use to have one of those - I remember him having it when I was a kid. I dunno how it would be to build it up for anything though. Could be very awesome, or could be very dangerous. I know removing the deck would worry me though!

I took El Toro for a ride today around the neighborhood and ruined my day...

I was on the dirt road, let the clutch out a little too quick (I re-did the pulley setup) and not only did it lift the front end so far up in the air that it almost threw me off, but it spun the tires and shot dirt everywhere. Normally that would be awesome, but when it did that I heard a very large "SNAP!" and the lawnmower started bouncing around a bunch.

Yes ladies & gentlemen, it bent the 3/4" thick axle like it was a freakin' coathanger. bash

Time to upgrade and put a real axle in it.

Yeah, the axle that was in there was junk. I didn't expect it to last indefinately, but I also didn't expect it to bend the first time I took the Toro out for a spin :(

so uhh weres the pictures at?

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« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2007, 09:14:20 AM »

Pictures of the bent axle? Truthfully, you can't really see a difference at all, but boy do those wheels wobble noplease

lmao ahhahaha so would u suggest upgrading my axel to 1'' i only got a 10 hp

Well the axle I used was 3/4" soft steel. It was originally just for a mock-up but then I got carried away with doing all sorts of other mods and it turned into a semi-permanent thing. I didn't expect it to last forever, but I did expect it to last a little longer than it did! It dosn't stop me from crusin' around, just at low speeds it wants to bounce me right off the seat lol

As long as I'm crusin' along at a decent speed it dosn't really bother me all too much.

ahh ic so ur gunna get a real axel rather than smoething u got off the shelf at the hardware store?


The axle that's on there came out of the scrap pile at the local school lol

well that explains alot rofl

man chris you have the dangedest luck....


I know, tell me about it...

I tryed using a 1" cold rolled steel axel and had my sprocket in the centre of the tractor and it would still flex the axel,so I mounted a bearing right beside the sprocket and that fixed it.If you have the sprocket right close to the side bearing it wont flex as much either.

It bent on both sides between the bearing and the wheel, so where the sprocket is mounted it's perfectly straight... Stupid piece of junk axle lol

Finally got to get some work done on El Toro again!

Found this at Home Depot and couldn't pass it up!
It't a 45lb spring, it DEFINITELY helps the clutch!

Added some more bracing on the tank holders.

Fits MUCH better!

My new toy!!! OMG I love this thing!!!!

Added some more bracing to the other side.

Fits like a glove smile

Hardly a mod, but painted the chrome lights flat black.
I think it looks a million times better flat black!

I'm considering painting the gas tanks flat black also, they kinda stick out being all red and such! Might end up eventually swapping the 19 twin for the 18 twin in the wizard since that engine is painted flat black. Yes I know - I can just paint the 19 flat black, but the Wizard deserves that extra 1HP lol

hey how do u like that heater whats the btu's and wered u get it how much did it cost :P im saving my pennys to get my own

oo yah  and  el toros looking sweet man

I freaking love it!!! It was about 20* outside when I decided to try it out for the first time. See, the garage isn't finished - has no doors and the roof is on but not enclosed. So it's basically like working outside under a tarp! lol That heater got me so darn warm that I had to take off my coat!

It's rated 40,000 BTU's and will heat a 7,000 ft3 building for 11 hours on a tiny little 20lb BBQ grill tank! I got it on sale at Home Depot for $100 - best $100 I've ever spent

hmm now only if home depot had the sales ur home depots do i would be working in the garage right now

It does, it was in the sales flyer put out... I don't beleive that it was much more expensive not on sale. Maybe $20 or so.
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« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2007, 09:16:19 AM »

So guys.... About those gas tanks.... :biggrin:

<------ Very Impatient

dont feel too bad chris, i'm in the same situation with my solenoid deal...i've been waitin and waitin for the solenoids to come in the mail, because i cant ride without them! willynilly so both you and me have our mowers begging to run in the nice snow, but we are waiting on parts.....uhh

There is like 4" of new snow on the ground and it's still snowing... I wanna ride so bad willynilly

I've come to the conclusion that I will pay you guys extra to ship me those tanks sooner!!!

I came to this conclusion when I was pushing El Toro home in a foot of snow. Ended up towing it home with the car becuase it was too much to push the darn thing. Well, now for the pictures!

They're both so depressed...

This thing's doing allot of good....
Doesn't work because it needs a new auger belt

Two hours worth of snow willynilly

After pushing/towing it home

man chris, you just gotta  rub it in, with all the snow and such, you suck :P i want snow :( i take it you ran outta gas? what hapened to those extra tanks you made the nice pretty mounts for? forget one at home?


Nope, didn't run outta gas; the fuel pump and that little tiny can have some "issues" with each other. It's like sticking bill gates in the center of Harlem... Doesn't work out too well lol

lmfao why couldnt you fill one of those red gas cans half full, and strap it down good, and run the hose down into it?


Didn't have that much hose, and not too sure if the fuel pump would like sucking that much that far :(

man that sucks...time to make a tank or rush those ones from danny out :P

-Phil your gas tanks yet chris?

Nope, I'm hoping to go home and have the packages waiting for me at the door. I'm so freakin' anxious to cruise around on that thing!  dancing weefly

Chill Chris, UPS will be there tomorrow. It will be there.  woo

Had to agitate you just a little. Ho-Ho-Ho

I know how hard it is waiting on parts.

Scott #396
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« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2007, 09:19:40 AM »

It didn't have anything to do with how the address was spelled did it?

lmao^^^ lol2 that wasnt nice, but god was it funny!! what a way to start to mornin off, by laughin your @ss off.


That was pretty funny Rocky, I'll have to give you that lol

And thanks Danny & Scott; I owe you both!

just wait till you run a sled out of gas in the middle of your Field around 12:00am thats a long walk home anthen back again to fill it up. lets just say i was a bit tired of walking that night! lol

I think we got a pretty good idea what "that" ment...

woot My girlfriend just called me at work to tell me that the UPS guy dropped off a package for me!!!

I look like this right now ---> :biggrin:

chris, hows it comin with those tanks? give us somethin to go on dude.


chris, hows it comin with those tanks? give us somethin to go on dude.


Off topic posts split mad2

I got the main tank last night (Thanks Scott!!!!!!) but haven't had a chance to mess with it yet. Unfortunately I only have time on the weekends to mess with the mower :(

Hope it works for you Chris. Show us some pictures as you mock it up.

Scott #396

Congrats that you Finlay got your long awaited gas tank woo

Got the gas tank on today woot

Took 'er for a spin around the block and boy was it fun! Have a few carb issues to sort out (I just threw on a spare that I had sitting around to get it running, I need to find out what's wrong with the original and stick it back on there) but it's a blast!!! I'm still waiting on my 10 tooth sprocket for the tranny, hopefully that'll come soon.

I'll post pics tomorrow, I need to get some sleep now smile

YAY!! Thanks Scott!!!!

Tank didn't clear the seat, so I
welded a brace to lift it about 2"

Test fitting, It did not like it's new home.

Nice seat clearance now.

The bracket was meant to be bolted to a flat surface.
This would not work for the Toro, so I welded on flat
stock to the edge and then welded that to the frame.
I'm a firm believer in welding the crap out of things
until they fit lol

All set and ready for the tank!

Tank mounted and topped off with gas.
It looks like it was meant to fit there!

Had to take it out for a spin in the mud!!!!
Bent the axle so bad that I had to drive it home in 1st gear...
I could barely stay on it it was jumping so bad!
Anyone know where I can get a keyed 3/4" axle for cheap?

man that tank looks really nice there!!  one thing i would worry about tho chris is your chain being open like it is...if it snaps it could bust your tank...i know that tank is offset a little bit, but personally i would put a flat peice of steel between the tank and chain...


I was thinking the same exact thing Phil. I'm going to put the chain guard back on as soon as I can find it. As you can see in the pictures I made quite the mess of the garage and have a hard time finding anything lol bash

And a B.F.H. for "fine tuning" and adjustments...
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« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2007, 09:21:25 AM »

thats the best thing to use squidd!! works great for body work too :P


3/4" isn't going to cut it unless you get suspension... I'd say get 2 pillow blocks, a 1" axle and some ATV hubs from northerntool... you will probably need new wheels at that... but it would be LOADS stronger.

if you really want 3/4". talk to a machine shop about making one out of thick wall tubing, would be stronger than solid stock at least.  good luck.

Yeah, usually the BFH comes to play 2nd, then more welding and the BFH again. It's a vicious cycle until the thing fits smile

they'd look alright chris, but they dont look wide enough for your tires...?   judging by the mud you get into chris, it would be nice to habe fenders to keep you i would be worried with them packin with mud and binding  up on you.  if you get them far enough away from the tires it wouldnt be a problem really.   


Those fenders would be sick!!!  woo

It would definitely help keep the mud off the engine!

thats for sure.

if you had some sheet metal, you could built some nice fenders for the rear.  take a flat peice of sheet and bend the edge at a 90 degree and bolt it to the frame.
from there you could cut out  a design or leave em square-ish.


I was looking at it today when I was out in the garage all frustrated about my engine, and those round fenders just wouldn't look right. The thing is all angles, no happy soft body lines, bends, curves, aerodynamics or anything. Just square, boxy angles of steel. The curved metal fenders would be totally out of place.

Thinking about just having something that looks like this for the front and rear:

___                  _____
     \               /

yea, i th ink you have a good idea there.

___                ___
     \             /         

would keep with the whole stealth type look of the toro.


Those kinda look like my huffy fenders......

I might have to put some cardboard mockups on there tomorrow when I'm swapping engines for the 4th time bash

lmao dude the toros a shop censored woo  rofl

Oh man you have no idea. It's spent more time getting fixed in the past few months than it's spend being used since it was manufactured.
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