This "caveman" needs help - - - please.

[caveman]

   Hey  Guys,  - - - - always wishing you a nice day,

            Today  I  went  "way out there"  in the mountains on my  ATV.     Then  on the way back  a one hour trip turned into a three hour return trip.        Oh boy  did  I  have problems  with my  ATV.    If  I had a gun with me  I  think  I  would have shot that  ATV  right  between the headlights.           

            I  went out  with my neighbor  to  set his  field camera up, - - - - -  then we tried to save a little time by "cutting across country"   truly   going over  and around   [ if we could]   logs and whatever  and up grades that a mountain goat would need a rope.         

            Then  my  ATV started goofing-up.     It kept quitting on me and the clutch acted  up on me like it didn't have any  power and the engine would just stop.       I  was in first gear and had gone up grades just as bad before.     I  think the clutch needs to be adjusted  again.       What is it to "look for"  in a proper adjustment.  ? ?      

            I  also had another problem at the same time - - - - - - -   My  chain came off about four times and was a real "pain" getting it back on.      My question is  -  - - - - -     how  is the chain adjusted on an   " ATV "   it has a lot of  "slack " in it  and  I  don't see any adjustment place - - - - nuts - - - - -   or  anything else to adjust the chain.   

            Ofcourse  there were " MANY " other problems that happened also.  Sorta  like the battery going dead on me while using the winch  which was  overheating  and then  killing the battery to the point that  I'm glad  I kept the engine running to put enough  charge in it to run the winch about two minuets at a time.    [  Sorry  - - - - - but  I'm  so upset  -  - - - - - -   STILL - - - - -  for the long sentance ]       [  If  I  had  my pistol with me - - - -  that ATV would still be out there.       ]      I'm sure some of  "you guys" may have had such days        

            Any  input at all would indeed be GREATLY  appreciated .    I'm at a loss as to how to correct the above mentioned problems.   

            Hey  you guys  - - -   I  am   always  sincere when  I  wish  and hope that you have a nice day.   I  know that there are some that would like to have a day that  I have just described  and would call it a  "piece of cake".      I  envy  you.    

            Wishing that your day goes well for you,                      Norman 
               

[money89tractors]

Hello Norman, nice to hear from you.

As for the chain, most ATVS have 2 bolts on the rear axle carried (where the axle goes through the swing arm). you loosen those 2 bolts and theres an off set tube (kinda like a cammed washer) inside that can be turned, this usually wil adjust the axle back slightly, thus tightening the chain.

As for adjusting the clutch, i am not much help in explaining it. its all in the feel to me.

 Alot of questions could be answered much much better if we had some pictures, or knew the make and model of the ATV.

Wishing you the best Norman.

-Phil

[caveman]

   Hey Phil,   Sure hope that your day went well for you,   

           Phil -  - - - - -   I  went out and looked and checked every inch of the  "swing arm "   and found nothing .   I also checked the spring - shock assembly  and again came up empty .    I  looked over the two engine  mounting plates and again nothing.   

            Allow me to put an idea out and see what you think of it.      This deals with the two steel "front of the  engine"  mounting plates.    There are no other physical connections to the engine except the tailpipe  and of course that dumb slack chain.     

            I  can remove those two engine mounting plates - - - - - -   and "install"  two other mounting plates  - - - - -  after  I  force the engine forward to remove the slack from the chain.     I  can make  oval  "mounting holes"  where the  "plates"  meet the frame.   After the adjustment to the chain - - - - - I  can then tighten the bolts to hold the engine in "that" position.       I could even drill and tap  a hole in each plate and run a bolt in it to make sure the plates don't move under stress.   

            What do you think of that idea ?    AND  can you give me another option ?        Phil  - - - -   I'll take these  problems in the order that  are the worse  - - - -   first.     If the chain is off the sprocket - - - it don't matter how good or bad the engine or clutch is working.       

            The  ATV is a piece of  junk made in China.    I'm  a "poor" man so  I  just got what  I could  at the time.   However - - - - -   this  "piece of junk"  keeps me mentally and physically   "with it"       Next month  I will be 75 and  and I will not allow a bucket of bolts  to  throw me for very long.    I  still do things that a 20  year old can't do.      Afterall   - -    I  AM a CAVEMAN.

            Phil  - - - - whatever you can throw in my direction  would be GREATLY appreciated.     Am  I way "off base" in my thinking on these problems.  ?         

            Think the world of all "you guys",      have a good one  - - - -    Norman

[money89tractors]

Your idea of altering the motor mounts would work well.

I fail to believe that any ATV would be built without some way to adjust the chain, as we all know they stretch in time. but when you say it is a cheap china quad, i can understand perfectly that there are no adjustments at all, for anything.

I have been around severeal of these "cheap" ATV's. Some are better than others, but they are all of fairly poor quality. I wish you the best it making your new adjust ments.

Take care Caveman

-Phil

[caveman]

     Hey  Phil,   Here's wishing that your day goes well for you,

           Thanks for your input ,  at times just such words are very encouraging  and are surely   appreciated.    I  find this  ATV a real test of the abilities  that at times  I thought may have been lost  to me.      [ Your message told me more than what you wrote ]    I  guess "this caveman is still with it ".           

           Monday  I  need to go to town to the "iron shop"  and get two heavy iron plates and make those engine mounts that will be adjustable.    So simple to make - - - -  I  fail to understand why "they" didn't make them like that in the first place.    I  often  wonder what goes on in some minds ! ! !           

            I've looked over the clutch and  I think  I  can get some adjustment there.    Phil - - - - -  Do you think it may be best to have the " clutch lever"   engage  within a very short movement ?      Perhaps within a half inch ? ?    Right now the lever engages about half way out.        While trying to climb that grade  that gave me all of them problems - - - - --  -  there was what appeared to be a light smoke coming from the area of the lower part of the engine.    I  assume it was coming from the clutch housing.    Other than making the cable adjustments  - - - - -  is it possible to  "tighten - up the clutch plate springs  [  if this "thing" has such ?  ]     :bigsmile           

            The carburetor  always did give me problems but after several overhauls got it working pretty good.         I  don't know if some additive  would do any good  - - - - - - the engine is an air cooled 250 cc and when everything is working alright  - - - - -  has gone up grades much steeper than the one that gave me all these new problems.       The "carb"  appeared to be  "bogging down" on me  that day.      Any reasons why that should happen ?    I  keep fresh gas in that turkey  ! ! !       :       

            Other than all that  - - - -   it runs pretty good .                    

            I'll say one thing for the China made stuff   - - - - - THEY don't have the foggiest idea of what they're doing.       

            Thanks again Phil for your help,             Norman 

          ps /        Heard anything from Chris ?     Hope  he's doing OK.

           

[money89tractors]

Who knows why they do what they do.

I have a friend here who bought one of these cheap china quads. Its is a full automatic. I watched smoke bellow from the clutchs on it when he tried to out pull my 250 Honda.

It is a very good chance thats where your smoke was coming from, the clutch. I would adjust it all the way loose. (where when you pull the lever it barely disengages the clutch, or not even at all.) Then with the quad in gear start tightening the cable with the lever pulled in until it has disengages the clutch enough that is can easily be pushed. You will fill it dragging some, which is fine as well.

If that does not fix the slipping. you have have just burned the clutch plates up and they may need replaced.... which may be hard to find with it being a china wanna-be honda.

Good luck with everything.

-Phil

p.s. i have not heard from chris in a long time. I am begining to wonder. I will shoot him a PM and see if he responds.

[caveman]

   Hey  Phil,  Hope that your day went well for you,

            Allow me to bring you up to date on what  I've been doing today.      Well  since  we figured out how to make some adjustments  on the chain,   today  I cleaned and adjusted the "carb"  and got the engine running pretty good.     Then  I  got on that clutch adjustment and you must be "reading" my mind - - - -   THAT'S pretty near what  I  did  ( What you suggested)  .    I  think  I  may be able to "tighten up"   the adjustment just a bit more  tho.    If the chain wasn't so slack - - - -  I would have taken it out for a run.   

           Tomorrow  I will be getting those metal plates   [ hopefully]   and will be out in the mountains again perhaps Wednesday.     I  love tracking the critters and try to get some pictures of them on my field cameras.      [ Keeps me out of trouble  - -  sometimes ]                         

            Thanks for checking on Chris - - - - I   don't want to be  a "pain" to anyone   

            Thanks again for your help - - - - -have a good one  - - -   Norman

           

[caveman]

Hey  Phil,  Always wishing that your day goes well for you,

      To bring you "up to date" on my " ATV " work - - - - - -   I  redid  the front engine mounts  [  didn't need the extra plates afterall ]   In a nutshell - - - -  I  got the   slack out of the chain .     I  moved the engine forward a full inch  .  I  don't know what slack is proper on the chain so  I  left a 1/2 inch slack   and hope it don't cause undue bearing wear.       I  took it out for a test run  of about 1/2 mile  up a mountain and when  I  got back everything appeared to be alright.     Before the test  I  soaked the chain with silicone  spray to flush out any grit and to lubricate it.       Hopefully  I  wont keep running into more problems  but  I think this is going to be a "working experience " .         

      It's  raining here today so  I may put off more adjustments on the clutch until the weather breaks.   The clutch didn't give me any problems on the test run and all the gears changed smooth       However - - - -  I  do have a question that perhaps you can answer for me.     The lil' booklet describes the clutch as a  " Wet Centrifugal slice "         Can you tell me anything about that ?    Also is it  [ good - -  - Bad  or whatever ]     

     Sure do appreciate your help       Norman   

[Chris]

Norman, this is what I found on a "Wet Centrifugal Clutch" I'm not sure what the "Slice" is all about, probably something poorly translated to English.

The Constant Variable Transmission:.

The CVT system consists of a primary sheave which adjust position via the centrifugal force of weights and a secondary sheave that maintains belt tension and controls back shift (down shift) via a coil spring. The third component of this system is a wet centrifugal clutch located behind the primary. This “wet” clutch controls the rpm engagement point and is controlled by small extension springs.

[money89tractors]

a wet clutch simply means the clutch is sitting in old out trans fluid. My ATV had this setup.

[caveman]

   Hey  Chris,    Missed you.    So  glad to "hear" from you.   My friend - - - - -   I  sure hope things are going alright for you.       

            I've  been doing some study and  I've  discovered about the same info.       I  also found out today that the  "ATV" that  I  have is a "copy" of a  Honda 250cc  engine.    So  I've been hard at it to study    that engine and the componet parts and they seem to "match".     That's a big  break-through for me.    At least now  I  can go in the right direction looking for info or parts.       

          Phil  has been and is a big help to me - - - -   I  know that things slow down in the winter for most people.    BUT   - - -   being a caveman - - -   I'm out in the forest every chance  I  get - - - - in the snow tracking critters  - - - -  or freezing rain to check my field cameras.      [  Love it  ]    

           Take care  my friend - - - - -    spring isn't that far away.                   Norman

           
Posted on: January 28, 2009, 03:39:08 PM
   Hey  Phil,   hope your day went well for you .   

           Phil  - - -   Thanks for the info about the transmission fluid .     Is it necessary to change  it or just  " let it ride" ?   Here's something that's funny  - - - -   I  was thinking that the  "wet" stuff came from the engine oil   - - - -   told all you guys that  i'm a real  caveman              

          Thanks Phil,            You  and all the "guys"  are always so appreciated,     

          Have a good one                Norman

[money89tractors]

On the 4 strokes like yours, the engine oil is what the clutch sits in. therefore, when you change the oil, it will drain what in the clutch area as well.

-Phil

[caveman]

   Hey  Phil  - - - - - - -    REALLY   - - - - - - -      You mean that  I  really guessed it right     

      What's  this world coming to  ? ?     

             Have a good one                Norman

[Chris]

Also, don't use oil additives in a wet clutch system either, and you have to use the exact weight oil that it came with or specifies in the owners manual. Using a different weight oil or introducing an oil additive could cause the clutch to slip or malfunction. My dirtbike uses a wet clutch system

[caveman]

    Hey again  Chris,   you and Phil sure are helping me to understand this " ATV " more as time goes on.

            Your comment about using additives in the oil has just explained what one of my problems was when  I tried to climb out of that valley.   That was a very steep grade  and it appeared that the engine was smoking but  I determined   the smoke was indeed coming from the clutch  and it was indeed slipping.   

            After the break-in period  I put in the same type oil  I use in my car  "  Motorcraft  sae 5W - 20  Synthetic Blend Motor Oil  "     That  oil is loaded with additives.         The  booklet that came with the ATV said to use  15W - 40   oil  .   I'm learning  - - - - -   I   just hope  I haven't ruined the clutch  and will change the oil today after flushing out the synthetic oil.     

            Thanks for the info  - - - - --   have a good one  - - - --   Norman

[Chris]

Yeah, synthetic oil and the wet clutches don't play very well.

[caveman]

  Hey Chris,    Thanks again for the info about the oil.       I  just got back inside the house to thaw out.           I  went out right away and changed the oil.  All  I  had on hand was 10w - 40  but it's regular oil w/o any additives.       I  plan  on going out in the mountains in about an hour and was real happy  I got that oil changed.   

   Take care           Norman