4x6

[Off Roader]

Hi everyone. Right now this is not an official build. I am still gatherin ideas. I want to build a 6 wheel drive mower. For right now i am only doin that the 4 rear wheels pull. I want to use a front engin. I was thinkin just get another rear engin mower and kutin it in half. Then weld it up to look like one frame. Then i would run 2 chains from the trans axle to the live axle. Here is my questian. Would you switch from the transaxle to a tranny and run to live axles. I no leavin the transaxle is easier but whick is stronger or would they both work. Thanks in advance.

[ryf]

would probably be easier to get your hands on a solid axle and run chains back from the transaxle if you have a 820 transaxle.. otherwise, yeah, switch it to a 700 series. I would NOT run two transaxles in the rear, you are asking for a nightmare IMO. you may want to consider using differential cart axles with this plan, so you really only get 2x4 in the rear (but tighter turns and easier to steer)

neat idea.

[Off Roader]

Yea i wouldnt run 2 transaxles. Then i got shifitin problems and everything. I dont no about the 2x4 though because the whole reason for doin this is better traction. And the only place i would run on macadum or any hard surface is my drive way. No if i but a solid rear axle i wouldnt have to lock the transaxle would I? Would it not make both sides turn if i ran a chain back from each side of the transaxle. Now as far as brakes. If i did set it up on one side of the transaxle it would still lock up all four, not?

[money89tractors]

If you run 2 chains from the transaxle without locking it, it WILL turn the live axle. However, without locking the transaxle, one of the chains will most likely be under far more stress than the other. Without locking the transaxle, if one of the chains breaks, you will on have the transaxle itself pulling and not the additional live axle.

I personally would run a peerless transmission to a live axle, then 2 sets of chains back to the next live axle. (2 chains simply a personal preference, you can run just one). The only problem with doing this it may cause turning issues (making to hard to turn), but this problem can be fixed if the very last axle is about 1/2 to 1" higher than the front axle. This creates a pivot point while turning.

I will try to draw up a simple picture tonight when i get home. Maybe it will shed some extra light.

-Phil

[ryf]

I like the idea of a slightly higher rear axle to help with turning.. that is a winner...
my recommending open diffs was only so you could turn 4 tires trying to go straight vs. 2 tryng to turn would be pretty difficult with lots of plowing instead of turning. Money98 has a good solution, I'd go that route.

just as a heads up, brakes need to be AXLE mounted. not trans mounted.... you don't want to loose brakes on a hillside because a chain popped off or broke. and if you run like I do, things get broke. putting the brake on the pivot axle (the front one for turning radius) would be the best situation if you go that route. if you do two axles level, I'd think getting good braking on the axle with more contact could be hard, but nothing two calipers wouldn't solve.

Yea i wouldnt run 2 transaxles. Then i got shifitin problems and everything. I dont no about the 2x4 though because the whole reason for doin this is better traction. And the only place i would run on macadum or any hard surface is my drive way. No if i but a solid rear axle i wouldnt have to lock the transaxle would I? Would it not make both sides turn if i ran a chain back from each side of the transaxle. Now as far as brakes. If i did set it up on one side of the transaxle it would still lock up all four, not?

[Chris]

You guys must have completely forgot about my recovery mower plans!!!

It would be a 6x6, all open differentials. Running two solid axles on the rear will cause some serious steering issues - gotta keep that in mind.

I'd be going from a locked transaxle to a secondary gearbox (like a transfer case in a 4x4) so I can have HI/LO range and a double chain to the forward-most axle, and then a chain connecting that axle to the one right behind it. Then I'd have a chain going from the "transfer case" to the front axle.

I'd like to figure out some "lockers" for the differentials though, that would be cool.

[Off Roader]

Well you guy all seem to be in favor of on open diff or something to make steerin easier. So I guess I will start out running an open tansaxle to a open strait axle. I have another questian though. Now would you run dual chains, on from each side of the transaxle. If i did this would it not be that each side would have to turn together. So if the right transaxle tire spins the other right rear one will also have to. Is that right And as far as brakes im still tossin this around but what if i installed cutting brakes. You no like on big tractors. I no they do wonders for them. Now i wont do this, atleast not right away but i think you should run tracks on you recoverymower chris. Not only would it look freaken awsome but it would be able to go anywhere.
You can run these up front and back or make your own setup in the rear, more like a tank.

http://www.mattracks.com/html/litefoot_atv.htm

[Chris]

I have some R/C trucks with Mattracks on them


You know how expensive those setups are? Hell, the ones on my R/C truck go for about $100 on ebay!

[Off Roader]

Its been a while since i looked but if I remeber correctly for the all conditions ones for my 4x4 polaris (sand mud rocks road etc.) it was 3 grand. Or there about. I didnt no they made them for rc cars. There should be pricing somewhere on the site. I like the ones for the trucks. Thats pretty cool. So whet do you think about the cutting brakes. It would help to if lets say one tire was in the  mud spinning and the other was on a rock. By aplying the brakes alittle on the mud side along with givin it gas it would actually make the solid side spin. Or if you slightly apply both it would act like it was locked. Its an old trick they use in compitision rock racing.

[Chris]

I've seen it used on tractors before it it's pretty cool. It would work, but on a 6x6 it could be tricky.

IMO the ability to lock the axles on-the-fly would be better

[Off Roader]

yea and more expensive.

[Chris]

Not if you engineer it right...

I'll try and think up some ideas and get some victim, ummmm I mean subject to tet it

[Off Roader]

So im still metally thinkin about how i am doing this. I am also looking for a good cheap candidate. I got another qhestian for you guy. I no on my old go cart (chain drivein) its biddest fault was the huge rear sprocket. I would really like to run a small sprocket going from the transaxle to the second axle. So i was thinkin of running one of these. It is a 3/4 inch bore and is a 14 tooth. Can you see any real problem with running this. I mean they use them on jackshafts so they must be strong enough. Second questian. What is the best chain size to use. 35 40 or 41. Thanks for the help.

[money89tractors]

The bigger the chain the better. Ive broke those #35 chains easy. As for using a 14 tooth sprocket, not the best idea. There is very little contact area for the chain, and althought they are very strong, that makes it very prone to slippage and rounding off those teeth.

I would use around a 30 tooth at least. This will give you a large contact area with still not being too large.

-Phil

[Chris]

I think I have a 14 or 15 tooth sprocket on the axle of my toro for that exact reason, but I've never even had the chance to do anything to it for over a year now so I'm not sure how well it's going to work out.

I would think as long as you keep your chain adjusted you shouldn't have any problems.

[ryf]

I used 25 and 26 tooth sprockets on mine I love the clearance (about 4 inches tall), but remember, they can be as big as the brake disc on the axle side, so don't spend more to get less as far as that goes. the other side is, the bigger the sprockets, the longer the chain lasts, because theres more engagement to individual links as well as less pivoting on its way around. that difference is probably infinitely unnoticeable though if you use a high quality chain. I would reccomend size 40 or bigger... I use 40 it is more than enough.

[Off Roader]

Where did you get you 25 tooth from. See all i could find was a 30 somin or bigger, or the little 14. I do still like the idea of the 14 so maby i will try it just as an experiment to see how it works. The other reason it might work is cause im running dual chains. Now how would you setup a chain tensioner for the double axles. I was thinkin i could fab a piece to run an idle pully in. Then i could attach it to the farme right above the chain. I and i could move it up and down using a bolt. It would also help with and any slipping problems because it is pushing the chain down wich would make it have more surface area on the sprocket. Now did i confuse you all or do you sorta understand. I would draw a picture in paint but i stink at that. One more thing. Is there anywhere to get sprockets that already has the keyed hole in it, like that it would eliminate the need for a hub.

[Chris]

mcmastercarr.com is where i got my axle and my sprockets. I highly recommend them

[toxic_j_2007]

another place to get sprockets like that is ruralking.com I work there and we have sprockets running fron 12t-60t in 2tooth increments (most of the way) (40 pitch chain) the hub for the sprocket is a separate part that would need to be welded on, but that's the setup I'm using and have used in the past. works good, as long as you get a large enough sprocket to get a good weld on.