ATGC update

[ryf]

ok... so the atgc is on the chopping block right now, here's where we are at:

we've replaced the first front end
switching to an after market rack and pinion for a sand rail
no more finger throttle, going for a gas pedal
proper steering wheel
switching it over to the chevelle master cylinder

you might ask why, well last year (about 6 months ago, we  started changing the front end, then we had serious issues with the dual a arms and the old steering)  I flipped it in a test ride, bent the safety hoop and realized it needed serious updates to get it to "right" (shoulda left the old front end on, but dual a-arms IS better once its dialed in. since we were updating the front end again, we thought about widening the frame at the front to get more leg room.. might as well change a few other things... and here we are... should be a massive upgrade package.  the master cylinder thing was because the escort one was supposed to be vacuum assisted, so pushing on the brakes isn't stiff, its solid, it works but to be blunt its on or off, if you are pushing hard enough to make it move, its locked the brake up.... the chevelle m/c is  single chamber and for 4 wheel drums (much smaller pistons) so should be perfect for giving me a little pedal travel to play with. plus it has no plastic or breather holes to leak like the escort one.

[Chris]

pics???

[ryf]

you know me, I'm a weekend pics kinda guy... will get some this saturday/sunday when I work on it again.

[tntchitwood]

ryf, did you check out the buggy I am building? It is around here somewhere. I used the chevelle mastercylinder and two calipers.right now the pedal arm (foot brake lever) is very short and hard to push. I am going to have to make the pedal longer for more leverage. Maybe my experience will help you go with a longer pedal to start with, maybe save you a couple of hours. Can't wait to see pics.
                                                                                                                                 Tom

[ryf]

yes, you definitely need at least 6" between the m/c and the pedal in pedal arm, they aren't designed to be 1:1, the vacuum assisted versions are higher volume pistons, and even worse (my escort one) I appreciate the heads up though.

[ryf]

pictures of the new front end in place, not completely welded in or structured, but the look is there... it definitely looks more buggy than go cart now.

[tntchitwood]

looks good, some poor atv is running around on 2 legs now huh?

[Chris]

Wow man, that's really cool - I love the look of it!

[ryf]

exactly. an '86 suzuki 250 had to die, but it was basically a bare frame from a cycle graveyard. no big loss to them, let the whole frame go for 100 bucks I'm going to rack and pinion, instead of pivot pegs, should be tight when its done. but it came a complete hydraulic front brake assembly, just needs pads... pretty luck on that side.

me=VERY happy

for those who don't know, I'm running a 17.5 tecumseh vert mower engine to an 820 rear, jack shafted to the rear axle. top speed previously was around 45 mph, but since we are redoing the exhaust this time around as well,  might help since before it was getting the spark arrestor red hot from back pressure.

[Chris]

Ryf you lazy non-updater....

Go get that thing done, and take some amazing pictures of it in action so I can post it on our main site.

[tntchitwood]

How do you get to the main site? My favorites are set to come straight to the forum.We have a main site?                              Tom

Found it DUH!

[ryf]

I have to work u know... a week at a time! I'll be on it this week like wild fire with new me-made pedals (yet to be crafted, but the pieces have been acquired) and the steering box comes today.. I've been home 15 minutes, I updated you BEFORE I got a shower

I also found a damn good way to temporarily attach that motorcycle tank until the new tank is finished (waterproof welds are harder than I thought) I got it down to impossible to see leaks (bubbles with soap) so we are going to seal it in the spring/summer (sealing kit says it should be warm to get best results) more on mounting kit later.

tom- don't change the topic you silly dope.

things still needed before being rideable

* acquire push pull cables for shifter and clutch
* pedals (gas, clutch and brake)
* remount gas tank
* finish steering bits
* finish weld front end
* replace halo roll bar and beef it up (due to rollover damage)

things still needed before being done:

* put on front bars on roll cage
* make felt-resin front clip/splash cover
* paint

I see it being done in spring. it'll be running maybe by middle or end of next month.

[money89tractors]

* acquire push pull cables for shifter and clutch

You can use a shift cable off an automatic car. Some front wheel drive manual cars also have cables that are both push and pull.

-Phil

[ryf]

You can use a shift cable off an automatic car. Some front wheel drive manual cars also have cables that are both push and pull.

-Phil

not long enough for clutch, I will need around 8 ft for that

I have a automatic shifter cable that I might be able to use for the gears, but I haven't been able to check the length I need.

[tntchitwood]

 

[speeddemon0308]

once you have water not leaking... put some gass in and presurize it a little.. gas is thiner then water!!

[ryf]

FORGET THAT I'm using a professional sealant procedure,a 3 step procedure (cleaner, zinc/rust inhibitor, sealer), to be fair, the bubbles started at 5 psi, but I just can't see welding it over and over making it much better. and for time spent, its easier to seal it than keep welding it. it won't be under pressurized service, but I can't afford to die in a fire because I was cheap.

more importantly, gas would make it unsafe to weld it again... thnx for trying to open up a mod slot

[speeddemon0308]

forget what!?

[ryf]

see above, had hit enter while typing

[ryf]

today I come with bad news... digital camera had dead batteries (it worked when I left the house, but it sat in the cold car all day which probably killed the batteries.

on the good front.. new pedals are all mocked and tacked, front end has all the supports in place, some still need finish welding, but thats not unusual. we've figured out where all the parts are going, which is the hard part... if I can keep this kind of pace it'll be ride worthy next week!

I'm ordering the clutch and shifter cables tonight, so they will be a while, but the throttle cable is en route.

I'm going to get some batteries or use the wifes camera tomorrow to get you the photos, I'm sorry but I did try.

I SUCK

[money89tractors]

today I come with bad news... digital camera had dead batteries (it worked when I left the house, but it sat in the cold car all day which probably killed the batteries.

I SUCK

lol dont be so hard on yourself, its happened to all of us more than once.

-Phil

[ryf]

your right, my camera sucks.... here's some pics of the updates.. the tie rods need shortened, and I have the rod ends for the job on the way! cables have been ordered as well hopefully soon we can make some of these outside shots... to be done Monday is mounting the master cylinder and maybe some more welding to get it out of the way.

[money89tractors]

How much narrower is the front compaired to the rear now?

-Phil

[ryf]

around 1 inch, it was 11" wider at the rear when we started the project, then we hacked it in half and added 10, threw in the steering rack shown, made new pedals and mount tabs... pretty much everything in front of the seat was replaced or drastically modified. for scale, the front center frame section is about 14-15 inches wide on the outside... total width t outside of tire is 46" front, 47" rear.. Ohio has a 50" ATV trail width limit.. .that leaves me room for different tires later, as well as a little swing in the front end if I get checked (its happened already)

[MOWchanic]

Its looking good!

Tyler

[Chris]

That thing is looking sweet

[ryf]

heres some pics of what I did this afternoon, its mocked up, but it works.. I had a linkage system before, the cable is sooo much less play...



this is the shifter mechanism itself, pretty simple, used some scraps of 2x4 tubing to get it big enough, it will get ground out before painting



this is a shot of the whole shifter mech with the knob and you can see the cable running around the back of the seat (which is not bolted in right now) you can also see some of the mechanical parts still on the other side of the cart



this is just how I hooked it to the tranny, simple enough.

[ryf]

got busy today and got alot done


engine mods for throttle and choke pulls

photos below show steering finished, as well as steering wheel in place, clutch and brake pedals are finished and functional, tie rods correct length, master cylinder installed... new clutch cable system works awesome

[speeddemon0308]

pm
Posted on: February 03, 2008, 10:07:58 AMwhats the ratio in the sterring? i have a stering box out of a golf cart and i want to use it..but i have to figure out how to mount it in the little space i have.. haha!!

[ryf]

that rack is 1.5 turns lock to lock, much better than my old pin/plate system which was a whopping 1/4 turn lock to lock.

Speedy, thanks for pointing out my motor is actually an engine, I will revise that.

[speeddemon0308]

the one i have is abotu 4 turns  lock to lock ( full right to full left ) but i dotn see how im gunna get it to fit.. and work!!!

[ryf]

how wide is it?  this one was $130 with 1 u-joint and the other shaft for the u-joint its 14", they make 11" for sure, and an 8" you might be able to sell yours to a go cart guy and cover half the cost of one that will fit.

[speeddemon0308]

its not big.. its just finding a way to mount it with the little room there is and getting it to work properly.. when my mom gets back from snowmobiling ill get  a pic or 2 of it..

[ryf]

4 turns lock to lock would be great for going fast really, more precise movements, but you might have issues going slow, just because you'll have to arm over arm alot to come in and out of a sharp turn... would still be fun to try, plus theres no saying you couldnt shorten the spindle arms to make it less than 2 turns each way as far as the tires go... keep us posted.

[speeddemon0308]

well.. it would be easyer to turn the wheel if im in sticky mud.. wouldent need to be moving to turn the wheels..

well.. its like.. 1.5-2 turns from the center to go left.. same with to the right...

[Chris]

That thing looks so cool. I was going to poke fun at the welds but you said you were grinding them before paint so I guess I can't :(

Is that an ammo box welded to the back? I'm telling you - that thing looks more and more like the buggy from HL2 every time i see it!

[ryf]

That thing looks so cool. I was going to poke fun at the welds but you said you were grinding them before paint so I guess I can't :(

Is that an ammo box welded to the back? I'm telling you - that thing looks more and more like the buggy from HL2 every time i see it!

there was one on each side... the other got destroyed in the rollover, have no fear I have spares!

i still have that pic you posted. it still makes me laugh

[speeddemon0308]

i have to find a spot to mount something like that on mine.. we have ammo boxes just like that.. but im not sure were id mount it!!

[ryf]

i have to find a spot to mount something like that on mine.. we have ammo boxes just like that.. but im not sure were id mount it!!

I love them, take a beating pretty well, and waterproof/mudproof. nice place to keep wallet and keys since they latch so securely

[ryf]

on with the update...

got it out and rode it today, will get some better photos tomorrow or monday, it looks pretty good, needs paint though. new steering is perfect, shifter is consistent, and braking is adequate. the new throttle is a little off, and the pedal/cable camming isn't quite right. but it does get going and run up to about 3000 rpm before the pedal stops, hahaha.  the new front end is FANTASTIC.

lifes been busy here lately so I haven't been able to update properly, today we started working on it, and realized, we were almost there. so we got it finished tonight minus the winch and gave it some hell...tons of fun.
Posted on: March 15, 2008, 07:09:14 PM

video for you guys to enjoy! no top speed, too muddy where we were able to ride

[mtd]

that thing looks like it is nice and comfortable to ride...And its not to big so it can fit through all the trails...I wanna build one now.Just i will probly use a 3 wheeler motor/trans.I know why you used tractor drivetrain but i couldnt see building such a nice machine and puting a weak drive system in.How much stress have you put on the drivetrain?ANd have you had any problems with the drivetrain?

[money89tractors]

Looks like the new front is working well. You really need to fix that throttle though, you can tell its got a lot left to give. I took a look at your over videos too; Very nice light setup. Great job on this thing.

-Phil

[ryf]

that thing looks like it is nice and comfortable to ride...And its not to big so it can fit through all the trails...I wanna build one now.Just i will probly use a 3 wheeler motor/trans.I know why you used tractor drivetrain but i couldnt see building such a nice machine and puting a weak drive system in.How much stress have you put on the drivetrain?ANd have you had any problems with the drivetrain?

I use a peerless 820 now, it holds up great, I've climbed it up some pretty steep hills with heavy tire spin and opened it up on loose river bottom gravel and sand... its not really "weak" per say... I would say my biggest reason to do it the way I did was for the fun. and it was the cheapest way that got me reverse, plus I can put a new drive system in whenever I want, the cart is more than built to handle it.

the woods shots I was fairly unable to open it up due to the slop and me not being sure how deep the muck was. the other video shows more potential, and yeah, I'm only getting at most 3/4 of the throttle, definitely in the works.

[mtd]

yeah i watched the second video and that thing does move pretty good.Fast enough for me.I was just wondering about the durabilty.Which you have a peerless 820 then yeah it aint gunna brake.But the trans i would use cuz i have it is a p800 and i wanted to know if that would hold up.

[ryf]

800 series are supposed to be tough too... I'd say try it. I found the 820 cheap, so I worked around it. if I knew what an 800 came in, I probably would have tried that...I had some 205's they were not up to the task, the main rear ring gears blew out.. the 820's is literally 3-4 times as wide, and has not given any hints of stress.

[Chris]

that thing looks like it is nice and comfortable to ride...And its not to big so it can fit through all the trails...I wanna build one now.Just i will probly use a 3 wheeler motor/trans.I know why you used tractor drivetrain but i couldnt see building such a nice machine and puting a weak drive system in.How much stress have you put on the drivetrain?ANd have you had any problems with the drivetrain?

Weak?!!? Dude you need to come on a trial ride with me sometime. I beat the living daylights out of the Wizard and the Toro. Broke both drivetrains, but only after heavy heavy abuse. The Wizard survived a 50mph jump with 3' of air and a barrel roll afterwards with no problems (other than the one that caused it to barrel roll - heh). If it's weak, then you just need to build it stronger.

And if you do that with a 3-wheeler you won't have reverse.

[mtd]

Thats the thing Chriss...this motor has reverse...and 5 speeds forward and auto clutch.But i am going to try at tractor drive train first to see how it holds up.

[ryf]

ok.. no pics today because I'm a prick, working on a............................rear suspension!

I've been poor at updating/posting since my son was born, I'm sorry about that, but I have been lurking and keeping tabs quietly.

I now only get 2 days every two weeks I can work on the buggy, and thats the slow down.

Things I've done since I last updated.....

Changed/simplified my alternator mount
bigger main rollbar tube due to rolling/bending
added top tubes for back rollbar
probably more I can't remember
started on swingarm suspension for rear.

[ryf]

new rear swing arm in place, not aligned, or finished, but photos to see....
I think it looks sweet, about 4 inches of travel at ride height, its about 7" if you get it airborne, which is why we did rear suspension (1 axle in the garbage)

the whole cart got about a 3" lift, which makes it look much meaner, even though the tires look too small, its still a beast. I lifted the front by altering the original shock mount, I also moved the top of the shock closer to straight up and down, which will give me a bit firmer ride (it was too  soft before anyway)


this is a pic of the custom coil over shocks are from an 1991 s-10 front end, springs are the $20 load assist springs, I think the buckets are  pretty darn nice as well, My brother in law fabbed those up, and they came out fantastic IMO. thnx for looking.
-----------------------------
I want to add
-----------------------------
I'm sorry I've been MIA, the kid is a full time job when I'm home, and though I do get to lurk, it seems right about the time I'm thinking about posting, he's trying to eat something that shouldn't be eaten. I'm going to try and get more diligent. as is he getting past the 10 month mark its getting easier. My buggy did not get worked on for 6 weeks in a row, this was my first opportunity to work on it in a while, and we (me and my brother in law) did about 90% of the changes inside 12 hours yesterday... it was quite a feat.

[Chris]

That thing is cool! Why didn't you use rear helper coilovers? Then you wouldn't nee the buckets. I see it worked out well though, very cool

[ryf]

I already owned the $20 helpers, the shocks were $16.46 at advanced (FYI on sale for your S-10 project) so it was cheaper I guess... and it looks nice and custom (and it was cheaper, lol)

[Chris]

I go through rear shocks like they're going outta style

[ryf]

PROGRESS UPDATE! new gas tank due to.. umm.. stress cracks? and finished suspension, thanks to the propane industry for making sealed steel containers cheap as hell. thanks for looking I do have a non ATLMA approved backyard video on my photobucket folder these pics are in, its poor quality though, only had my cell phone with me. I also got the suspension functional, but it will be getting beefier QA1 springs PDQ (they are already here, but too much other stuff done this weekend!)  due to tight space, my brother in law (driver) couldn't get past 3rd gear(we don't use 1st), but thats ok, still fun to check out! thanx for looking

[toxic_j_2007]

how exactly did u build that gas tank? that looks almost exactly like what I've been looking for for a non-atlma project I'm working on. any info is appreciated..

[Chris]

That's a AWESOME idea for a gas tank!