Craftsmen build

[tractorman]

Okay, well seeing that the wheel horse didn't make it I have a back up plan. Below you can see what the craftsmen looked like and what it is now.

[money89tractors]

   looks good!!

-Phil

[tractorman]

Hey guys, Are 26x12x12 to big of tires? You know I had these tires for the wheel horse and I have a extra set of 5 bolt 1 inch hubs.

[MTDrider1160]

Use them!!!! Cept i dont know if your fender will clear.

[tractorman]

Should, May be just a little cutting or bending.

[money89tractors]

According to the rule book "No tires larger than 22” (must use 8” rim)".

I know there was some debate about tire sizes for "garden tractors" such as the Wheel Horse where the 26x12x12 would be fine (i personally know how stable those tractors are with those tires) but as for the craftsman, i would have to say no larger than 22"...until and update/edit to the rules.

-Phil

[tractorman]

Okay I will see what I can get in some carlisle super lugs (cleats) or some dunlop cleats.
Posted on: August 04, 2007, 05:38:20 PMWell, If I may make a suggestion. I personally think that we should have some rules changed by tire size. The first class allow 22'' tires only. And the second up to 26'' tires only and ect.......
Just wanted to show you what I mean. These are rules to my pulling assoc.

STOCK
800 lb (2 rounds)
Engine limited to 10 HP
Tires limited to 23x10.50x12

SUPER STOCK
900 lb
1000 lb
Engines limited to 12 HP
Tires limited to 26x12x12

PRO STOCK
1100 lb
1200 lb
Engines limited to 18 HP (Single or Twin cylinder)
Tires limited to 26x12x12

MODIFIED
1350 lb
1400 lb
Engine limited to 2 cyl. max (2 single cyl. engines allowed)
Any engine modifications allowed
Tires limited to 15" rim max 
Total width of tractor not to exceed 60" max
Dual wheels permitted within 60" max
Max wheelbase is 60"


NO 4-wheel drives allowed.
NO nitrous-oxide allowed in any class.
NO chains or spikes allowed on tires.
PLEASE ADDRESS ALL QUESTIONS OF LEGALITY PRIOR TO PULLING.


Just my .02

[money89tractors]

Completely understood, the rulebook is under advision all the time, and with ATLMA being a new group with untested rules, changes are sure to be made.

-Phil

[tractorman]

That sounds good hopefully we will have some changes by the end of my build because I have no money to buy rims and tires.

[ryf]

what if we added a clause that said you can run different settings, except things falling under "safety". your class will be determined by a judge, but you cannot be awarded points or able to place under any circumstances. a time trial if you will. that way you can get lap times and work on technique while you save for new tires. just a thought anyway.

the problem with making big windows on the rules is people with another size tire may have to change theirs instead of you changing yours to be competitive. so changing the rule for you has adverse affects on others. making alot of different classes means the first few years there might be 1-2 people in a class, and dominating a class of 1 is just boring. not everyone can be "happy" with the rules, I could see allowing someone to run as long as its safe, but that doesn't mean the rules can adapt for all.

I don't personally know what the tire size should be, but I know rules are made to keep competition realistic/affordable for all. I wouldn't mind making the time trial class a "unlimited class-X" (experimental) where safety is the only rule, and it has to be mower engine/tranny powered, that way I could ride with a class. but I doubt thats coming anytime soon :P

[MTDrider1160]

One thing, i dont think we should rule out tire chains.  They can be the difference in buying a new set of grippy tires or just getting chains.

[money89tractors]

Lets give this fine man his build thread back. I will soon be posting a new topic on the matter.

-Phil

[tractorman]

Its okay guys. As long as we are discusing matters and the build it doesn't matter to me then. This morning going to pick up the brake light and some metal couldn't get anything last night because didn't have nough time. Does anyone happen to know what EC DIST sprockets run in price? What about the pitch? #35,#41.....

[MTDrider1160]

I would order them through mcmaster carr.  You can get them with built in hubs.

[tractorman]

Okay thanks

[ryf]

Its okay guys. As long as we are discusing matters and the build it doesn't matter to me then. This morning going to pick up the brake light and some metal couldn't get anything last night because didn't have nough time. Does anyone happen to know what EC DIST sprockets run in price? What about the pitch? #35,#41.....

surpluscenter.com has them as well, I'd use #40 pitch if you can get it(widely available), chain is larger than 41/35, stronger, and cheaper as its an industrial size rather than a powersport size. just MO. #60 is massive, and is about what they use on street bikes, though some of that chain is metric soit may not fit yours! it would hold up great but it would weigh a blessed ton, I'm using 40 myself.

[tractorman]

  O I forgot to say for my peerless 700 tranny. It has to have a 32 spline.   
Posted on: August 05, 2007, 06:55:29 AMOkay what do you guys think I can buy a sprocket with 2 set screws put it on the shaft tighten down the set sscrews then drill a hole in the tranny shaft and the sprocket for a bolt and nut to go on and keep the sprocket to the shaft.

[ryf]

it would work... Its 5/8 shaft though, I'd use a grade 8 size 8 (not metric 8, the 8, 10, 1/4" sizing)
you don't want anything too big that you break the shaft instead of the pin/bolt!

[tractorman]

Sorry for no proggress today, Its 102 degrees here in SC and I dont have a air conditioned shop so I have to work outside. The news told everyone to stay inside no matter what you do. I went outside tryed to work for 5 mins and then came in it is just plain hot here. Good news, Ordered a sprocket for the tranny and picked up some parts.... Pics to come soon.

[tractorman]

Okay, I have some progress after going hunting for some metal and buying a brake light and a switch I all I need to do is install them. I am going to be working on the mower friday and should have the pedal, tranny mount fabricated along with the light mounted.









So far I have about $50 in this project. The only thing I paid for was the tranny and the light. All the other metal I had laying around or it was scrap in my shop. All the brakes and axle things I had from along time ago for another project that never happend

[tntchitwood]

Tractorman,  I have that same switch on my chopper, to start it.It has been in the rain one time. Now.....sometimes it will start and sometimes it won't. I recommend a switch from a bike or ATV,even a used one. They are waterproof.

[tractorman]

Okay, I am going to look for one right now we are going to be switching out some parts like we are going to diffrent brakes like car ones.

[tractorman]

Alright getting ready to order some parts and need to know a good gearing combo for the pulley system and the  chain drive. For the chain drive I was thinking that I could use a 24 on the tranny and a 14 on the axle? And for the pulleys I was thinking 5 oin motor and 4 on tranny?

Any other Ideas or better gearing would be greatly appreciated.

[money89tractors]

a 24 on the tranny and a 14 on the axle? And for the pulleys I was thinking 5 oin motor and 4 on tranny?

WoW...lookin to go fast huh. Heck the racin guys dont even run ANYTHING near that big on the trans. What you really need to do, is find out what the ratio of your transmission is in high gear. After you do that, then deside how you wanna gear. Gearing also depends on what class your gunna run. Limited can only have a 9:1 final drive ratio.

-Phil

[tractorman]

Well money89, We did some more checking on the tranny the P700 and we actually have some badly damaged shift forks. We found that parts of the shift forks were broke off. So...... Being we already have a transaxle tha will be going in there since we still have all stock mounting locations. Pics to come tomorrow left the camera at home.

[money89tractors]

Well, in that case, you still need to know what class. Limited as i said is only a 9:1 ratio class, other than that, ratio is open to you. However, you will want to gear so that you will have the torque you need to get through the rough trails. With that said, you will need to find what the gear ratio of your transaxle is.

-Phil

[tractorman]

38.61:1 in first
19.92:1 in second

So what would be the best tourqe settings?

[money89tractors]

First gear will be the most torque, but if your only running 2 gears like you say, you can set the ratio up to have 1st as a power/ trail gear and 2nd as an "open" trail to trail gear. Your second gear is half the ratio of first, meaning youll double power/torque from 2nd to first.

I believe (think) if you run a 5" engine, and a 5" trans, that will give you a 19.92:1 final ratio. if you run say an 8" engine and a 4" trans, i think that will get you around a 9.96:1 final ratio.

-Phil

[tractorman]

Okay thanks

[tractorman]

well guys, got all my parts to finish and will be ordering some tires these to be more precise.

 These are 18-9.50x8 duro cleated tires. These will be going on to my stock rims.

Now I have come to a stopping point for one reason...... BRAKES! I know we had a discussion about using 4x4 car brake rotor and calipers which I have....... Question is where to mount them?
On each side of the transaxle there are 2 spacers from keeping the wheel from sliding all the way back. Now do I remove them and weld a 3/4 billet hub to the axle since it is  not keyed all the way back on the axle?

[money89tractors]

You are locking your rear axle correct? in that case, while you have the transaxle open and the axles removeable, pull one axle out, set it in a wise TIGHTLY and cut the key for the brake hub with an angle grinder. It wont look pretty, but it will work nicely.

-Phil

[tractorman]

Yes I am locking the transaxle. But yeah that works for setting it in a vise and cutting the key.

[MTDrider1160]

Or take it to a machine chop and they should be able to do it with a miling machine.

[money89tractors]

Or take it to a machine chop and they should be able to do it with a miling machine.

That too...mines just the poor mans way.

-Phil

[tractorman]

I will probably go with the poor mans way and just cut it myself an then cut the spacer to the correct length. I still need to find a good paint color and need to find tubes for my front wheels.  I have so much to get and prep and get ready to put on the mower for Friday I am over whelmed. But on the good side I have a 6 inch pulley from mcmaster carr coming tomorrow. Tranny seals are coming in tomorrow too so plan to see alot of progress on friday alot of pics! 

[money89tractors]

I have so much to get and prep and get ready to put on the mower for Friday

whats on friday?

-Phil

[tractorman]

The only day this week that I can get over there to work. So I need to make all the use out of that day I can.

[money89tractors]

i see i see, basically want everything together so you can get it done.

-Phil

[tractorman]

YUP!   

[tractorman]

Okay guys I know I was looking for an engine. I forgot I had a 8 hp pull start sitting on my shelf right now need to be cleaned. Its a pull start. I can remove the govener? I have a ported out carb and a few other tricks up my sleeve. I am not sure. what do you guys think?

[Chris]

An 8HP is pretty weak... That's what I pulled off my Toro.

[tractorman]

Totally understand...... But its getting hard to find other engines. I think I am going to have to use it until I can get another engine.... 

Hey Chris I learned this from a guy at the lawn mower shop. He told me if you tak a carb off a 7 hp motors and put it on a five hp motor it becomes a 6 hp motor because the jet is drilled bigger.
Now I have a modefied carb from a 10 with a jet size bored over 3 sizes this should make it a 10 hp. Now by time you bore it (if needed) Port it, remove the governer you should be at 12 hp.

[money89tractors]

8hp might sound weak, but with correct gearing theres nothing to worry about.

Pics coming soon i hope?

-Phil

[tractorman]

O yeah tomorrow I will blow you away with pictures!

[tractorman]

Okay, Sorry for leaving you guys hanging for a while been real busy.... But I had progress thought the weeks of the summer so here you go.



and the clutch. Craftsmen clutches are really good. All the clutch needs is 2 new idler pulleys.



Front view



Now the stock tires have about 1/4 inch of knob thickness on them so they are very usable.



transaxle. it has been race prepped and cleaned. (sorry for no pics)



The tractor as is sits today.



Mounting hardware.



The tank comes with hose.



The mounting basket it sits in.



Okay here is the gas tank we are going to use. This tank is a $10 wally-world special.



The thickness of the steel plate we used



The brake pedal.

Sorry for the pics being backwards.....
More to come tomorrow going to (TRY) to assemble the engine.

[money89tractors]

Shes look mean, but i think you might have a small steering problem :-| lol

The fuel tank you have is pretty small, you might wanna think about adding some gas can holders like Chris did with El Toro.

-Phil

ohh... http://www.OffRoadMowers.com/uploader/ 

[Chris]

You're going to have serious belt slippage issues with the pulley on that transaxle. I have belt slippage with my 4.5" pulley, that's why I upgraded both pullies to dual groove 6.5 beasts!

[tractorman]

O that pulley.... haha That was just on there to take the picture.. My new and improved pulley is coming in tomorrow. 5 inch pulley.

The gas tank I have 2 of the  which is a a total of 2 gallons of gas. Steering well have to get the steering rods still. Its coming together slowly but surely.

[tractorman]

OKAY... Small problem..... I need BRAKES! The automotive brake setup will not work I have no room left to install the rotor and caliper. i was thinking about having a disc made and welding it to the tranny pulley  but I dont know and my last though to put brakes on is take a spare set of my racing cart rims and front hubs and use front brakes. But I only have one set of brakes. This might cause it to flip around to one side on sudden stops. Any ideas? And thoughts?

[money89tractors]

This picture is of his brothers brake system on his Super-stock. We will install the same set up on this one.


Here is another look at the disk and disk hub. The is made by none other than Steve Bertrand of Bertrand Hydraulics, also the builder of the big Indian also referred to as the Thunder Twin. 1800-236-3611

Theres your brakes

-Phil

[tractorman]

Actually after a litlle thought last night coudlnt I use the hubs that acme mower sports sells that also take the hydro brake disc?
Posted on: September 02, 2007, 05:18:05 AMUPDATE:   9/3/07

Today limited on time got some done.

Gas tank mounted on the inside of the panel.



Forgot to mention in the picture above you see abig hole in the frame. That is where the live axle goes and where it bolts so I can still use a live axle if I ever have to.




And here it is as she sits now. The steering rods all have been connected and the mower steers.
NOTE: Where I placed the gas tank the battery plate will have to be cut out a little so I can revove the gas cap.

So.....

[money89tractors]

What class is this mower?

I know its not limited due to the governor being removed.

Can you get us some pictures of your steering setup? I would like to see how its been setup.

-Phil

[tractorman]

Phil Sure I can, Looks like I am going to run modified being the governor is removed like you said above.

PIC:

[money89tractors]

looks like the stock setup to me.

-Phil

[tractorman]

Yeah actually it is. The steering on this mower is tuff. It has steel gears so they wont break and the have pins to hold them. The pins are solid steel

[money89tractors]

What kind of tie rod ends are you using?

-Phil

[tractorman]

To steer it for now just to move it around the stock rods. We are going to replce them with the heim joint type rods.

[money89tractors]

Good good, thats what i wanted to hear.

-Phil

[ryf]

OKAY... Small problem..... I need BRAKES! The automotive brake setup will not work I have no room left to install the rotor and caliper. i was thinking about having a disc made and welding it to the tranny pulley  but I dont know and my last though to put brakes on is take a spare set of my racing cart rims and front hubs and use front brakes. But I only have one set of brakes. This might cause it to flip around to one side on sudden stops. Any ideas? And thoughts?

get different wheels with a different backspacing for the back. weld the disc to 2 machined (not cast) locking collars that have a keyway.

you cannot put brakes on the pulley, if the tranny blows and doesn't lockup, you'll be unable to stop, this wouldn't be safe at all.

take photos of the no room condition, perhaps you can mount the caliper to the rear frame plate, so the disc can be snug against the frame side.


sorry it took so long, family matters..

[tractorman]

Hey Ryf, No need just ordered some hubs from acme mower sports. I bought his 3/4 axle hubs with the brake adapter.

[STEELMAN]

your gas tank looks like an overflow tank with the feed at the top

[tractorman]

Yes it is. I bought this at walmart for $10 They are really used for coolant tanks for cars. I have 2 of them for gas. I am going to just take silicon and fill the hole.

BTW, Getting ready to paint it any ideas on color?

[STEELMAN]

maybe test it before you paint it (fill it with water shake it around drop it then fill it with gas and let it sit overnight)after all that i am a big fan of real deeeeep blue colors

[tractorman]

Hey guys, Its been awhile... LOL. But good new more progress got the brake situation sorted out more pics to come on how I did that. More to come.