Neat steering system Idea. "pumpless" hydraulic

[ryf]

now this really isn't ATLMA safe probably, but here is my idea. I have a boat, it has "powerless" hydraulic steering, a hydraulic motor/pump is used in a closed circuit to a double Action ram, and as you turn the wheel, the fluid flows from one side of the ram to the other. make any sense?

so I was looking at my current steering, thinking about an upgrade maybe, to a DA ram and a pump/motor that gives me lock to lock as close to 1 turn as possible, (I'm currently at about a 1/3 of a turn lock to lock, and its a big of a fight at times, and a little twitchy at speeds over 40mph)

I don't want more than a turn though, or I'll have to go back to a full round steering wheel over my half cut now, this also would me the steering wheel doesn't have to be in a particular angle to the steering....

of course my other option that i'm seriously considering right now is a chain track rack, as I know I can adust the diameter of the sprocket to get different steering response.

thnx for listening. laters

[tractorman]

Have you tried some alluminum aircraft rods that use adjustable heim joints?

[money89tractors]

Its an idea. Its basically like the hydrolic steering on a monster truck works. I assume your wanting to use this for your ATGC?

You say your steering only give you about 1/3 a turn lock to lock, and is twitchy. I suggest making the pitman arm longer, this will give you more than the 1/3 lock to lock turn and reduse or eliminate the twitchyness.

-Phil

p.s. a pic of the steering setup would help here to, the hydro setup and you steering setup as it is.

[tractorman]

Ryf, I know what you are talking about. Have you thought about steering from a ford tractor? I know the one we have has a steering that is very easy to trun and goes lock to lock. It uses fluid but it would be a good setup for your go-cart.

[Chris]

Power hydraulic steering sounds like it can be nice, there have been times on the toro where I was on the trials and in certain situations it was pretty hard to steer.

[ryf]

right now I am using the classic go cart pitman arm.. lengthening the pitman arm would shorten the turns lock to lock as it increases the distance traveled by every inch of turn. shortening it would cut into my steering radius, as we played with it for hours to get it "just right"

we already have adjustable tie rods, good idea though.

I don't know about tractor steering, I assume its "powered" hydraulics though, which I am trying to avoid if possible.

I am actually considering a few changes to the front end (like making my own spindles) the go cart style I currently have are lacking, and fixing these shortcoming will also be part of upgrading the steering (like stronger arms on the spindles, and etc.) to be honest theres only 1 thing I'm not completely pleased about at this point, my steering. my fabricated a-arms are holding up awesome, and will be kept for future use. but all the parts I bought instead of made/altered on the steering are coming up sub par IMO. and I can't really see a way to alter them to be acceptable without affecting other things negatively. so building the "correct" part seems like the only answer.

there are lots of different steering kits, but here is one I tried copying the link, but it wouldn't work right (ID token) I think I can build one similar/superior for $300 or so.

http://www.westmarine.com
BayStar Outboard Steering System
TELEFLEX mfc#HK4200  WMPN# 3400934

[STEELMAN]

hey guys nice to see er hear er i guess read all of you again its been a busy summer so for your question i have messed with quite a few different systems the first being exactly what you mentioned pumpless hydraulic!!! i used 3 small cylinders and a gear rack. the rack to actuate one cylinder then connect the others it works good but is limited on speed of turning. the best i have found is a manual rack off a geo(pretty sure power steering is not needed for a mower) but i am still working on direct steer 

[ryf]

I'm thinking this is not a cost effective steering system. I am currently considering a 11 tooth sprocket (leftover) to a 25 tooth sprocket, that way I'll have more leverage, an instead of a 1/4-1/3 of a turn, it would be 2/3's give or take, which would keep the twitchy down since the range of movement would be 2+ times than it is now,

[Chris]

Take a whole power steering system off a geo metro!!! I'm sure it'll fit with room to spare, those cars are so small they're like go-karts already!

[MTDrider1160]

Hmm theres one sitting on the side of the road near me, maybe they wont mind if i borrow there steering system.

[ryf]

umm, power steering = pump= more hoses&parts front to back :-P

probably not... my master cylinder is a power style.... it gives me fits too, since I don't have a vacuum to boost it(I took off the booster, but it pushes back pretty hard. I'm probably going to replace it with one off an 80's chevette (probably because I already ordered it since it was only $20 with the rod and cap) I considered the $50 for a wilwood, but it wasn't clear if it would move enough fluid to work a car disc caliper (looked like a clutch m/c)

I've pretty well settle on the chain setup, the pumpless hydraulic is just too expensive, as is the steering for a metro, if I was gonna blow $300+, I could come up with some neat ideas :-P

I'd really like it to be a little less than one turn lock to lock, I checked it, its a little over 1/3, which means with the chain system it would be 2.27373..../3  is about 75 percentt of a 1 lock to lock, and should be lots better, and its free. yay leftovers... a big bonus. oh yeah, and I can use a different sprocket later to get it perfect if need be. yay tweakable.

I'm gong to make new tie rods and keep using the purchased spindles, BUT I AM switching to rod ends both ends and making new spindle arms (where the tie rods attach on the spindle)

[STEELMAN]

your missing the point guys no power is needed for a mower even with 22" tires up front the manual racks you can get for 10 bucks all day long at a boneyardall you have to do is shorten the arms and they work great

[ryf]

what year/make/model are you thinking of?

most of the racks I have seen on cars are pretty wide, willing to listen though, I'm affraid of a "power rack" ran without the power, as it may be an expensive investment for failure since theres no telling how much no power will affect it.

I also don't want multiple turns lock to lock, but that would be negotiable, but I doubt $10 is going to cut it around here at least.

[STEELMAN]

any year. the power racks will also work you just have to cut the lines and connect them. by the way its nice to see somebody else has finally realized the 1/3 turn stop to stop direct steer racing crap sucks for offroad. (also i would advise against using chains for steering if they break your in trouble gears would be better if you break a tooth you can still semi controll it)

[ryf]

I had an escort rack, it had about 6 hose fittings (damn speed control steering)

I'm not too worried about chain breakage.. I'm about 1/3 a horsepower in my arms if I'm lucky, on a wheaties day, so with regular inspection it should be safe.